These interviews are lengthy, so I tried to post them in a way to make it easy for readers to be able to stop and come back to where they left off as conveniently as possible.
-From The Author-
I write and manage this page for several reasons, but none of which are to ridicule, embarrass, or denigrate any victim, or person who may be struggling with mental illness. If you have followed my page for very long, you know that I openly discuss my struggles with Major Depressive Disorder (MDD) and PTSD. Passing judgement is not a something that we, as outsiders looking in, have the right to do. That’s not what this page is about.
The female officer involved in this unfortunate situation, it has been revealed by these documents, struggles with mental health issues. Whether or not that played a role in her actions regarding this situation is not for anyone to assume or dictate. However, I do feel it is something that should be considered before passing judgement, which, again, is not a right that anyone possesses, especially me.
I post the things I post, to shine a light to the dangers and difficulties Law Enforcement Officers encounter every single day, most of which the public is unaware. I also try to educate my readers on the processes and procedures that are involved in all law enforcement agencies, including internal disciplinary actions. I try to do so with humor and sarcasm a lot, but never with the intent to kick people who are down and struggling. Officer’s mental health is an issue that law enforcement, as a profession, is just now starting to take seriously, and I encourage any person who is struggling with these types of issues to reach out for help. It can be done 100% anonymously now. Feel free to reach out to me if you need a resource that I can point you toward.
The National Suicide Prevention Lifeline in the United States is 1-800-273-TALK (1-800-273-8255). It's a free, confidential 24/7 helpline that connects individuals in crisis with trained professionals who can provide support, information, and local resources. If you or someone you know is in immediate danger, please call your local emergency number.
During investigations, both criminal and administrative, it is common practice to interview all of the involved parties first, and then go back and perform follow-up interviews to clear up any conflicting information. That is the process that the Human Resources Investigator used for this investigation. These are the first round of interviews with all of the officers involved, in the order they were interviewed. The follow-up interviews are not far behind!
HR Interview of Meagan Hall (367)
Patton: Okay. Um so, sep‐completely separate from the conversation we just had.
Hall: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: Um, I’ve been conducting an investigation into some concerns from second shift and so, and I knew you were coming in today to talk about the other topic. So, I wanted to take the opportunity while you’re here to conduct the interview on the investigation that I’m working on. Okay? Um so, um, first thing I wanted to do was ask you about if you could describe for me in your own words, the culture of second shift. How would you describe what it feels like to work on the shift, interaction between people, like kind of lay out for me in your own words what‐how you would describe that.
Hall: I mean, I feel like we all get along really well.
Patton: Okay.
Hall: You know, I’ve been on shift where we’ll all be huddling outside of uh‐the back of the PD. Like we all have really good rapport.
Patton: Okay.
Hall: Our command staff is excellent, they’re always willing to help us‐
Patton: And you’re without a Lieutenant now, right?
Hall: Yes. So, Lieutenant Kaul got promoted.
Patton: Okay.
Hall: So, I think they’re still doing the interviews right now for Lieutenant.
Patton: Okay, okay. Are you aware of any um‐um like, beefs between people, any disagreements that have surfaced up um between anybody on the shift or that works with the shift?
Hall: I mean, Dan‐uh Saing, people kind of butt heads with him just‐
Patton: Okay.
Hall: ‐I guess because he’s newer so, the way he handles calls or constructive criticism but‐
Patton: Okay.
Hall: ‐other than that, no.
Patton: People have voiced that to you, or you observed that or you yourself have had an issue with that?
Hall: It’s really been you know, both Sergeants and all of the Officers, we’ve all had some type of, multiple‐multiple interactions‐
Patton: Okay.
Hall: ‐I guess since he got put on our shift.
Patton: Okay.
Hall: I mean, we still work well together. It doesn’t affect how we handle our calls or anything like that.
Patton: Gotcha. Is there anybody else that you can think of that might have had a disagreement at all on shift that boiled over into anything?
Hall: Not that I can think of.
Patton: Okay.
Hall: I mean, I’ve been gone for a week so‐
Patton: Right.
Hall: ‐I don’t know what’s happening now, but‐
Patton: Yeah, okay.
Hall: ‐everything seems to flow really well on our shift.
Patton: Okay, okay. Um, do you have any knowledge of um, like, post shift hangouts, parties, different things like that that take place?
Hall: Every now and then we’ll uh Sunday night football, we’ll go together.
Patton: Okay.
Hall: I know uh, Lugo, Gavin, Maggs and uh Liedtke, they go out and drink every now and then at Top Golf.
Patton: Okay.
Hall: Or they’ll go to Lugo’s house.
Patton: Okay. Um, do you have any knowledge of any um intimate relationships, sexual interactions, between Officers on second shift?
Hall: Not on second shift specifically, I know of past ones.
Patton: Okay, yeah and this would be‐
Hall: One that was like between the‐it wasn’t between the shift but that I knew of.
Patton: Okay, okay. Um so, the case that I’ve been investigating this week is um, pretty significant and I would say is fairly graphic um, about concerns that have been raised about sexual interactions that have happened between Officers on the shift.
Hall: Okay.
Patton: Um, and so, through the course of the investigation, as I’ve been having meetings um, you know, part of my job is to take the complaint when it first comes in
Hall: Right.
Patton: ‐and then obviously try to be an objective party to say “Okay, here are the‐here’s the information I have, how do I validate it?” Right?
Hall: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: And so, throughout the course of the investigation I’ve been able to validate a large portion of the information I have. Um, although I have a lot more conversations to have.
Hall: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: Um, and so, all of my questions to you today are going to be about confirming information I have, right? So, I’m going to ask you some questions, they’ll be vague in nature because I’m looking to see if you know anything, I don’t want to give you information that you don’t know about, right?
Hall: Right.
Patton: I’m only looking to hear about things that you might know about.
Hall: Okay.
Patton: Um, and then I probably won’t use names necessarily but if you know who I’m talking about, I’d like you to use those names so that I can use that as confirmation.
Hall: Okay.
Patton: That makes sense?
Hall: Yeah.
Patton: So, two things before I dive into the specific questions. One, all of our conversation is confidential while the investigation is ongoing.
Hall: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: When the investigation closes, because we’re a Municipality, we’re subject to open records, right? So, at that point the records can be requested. So, I always tell people that‐that while it’s going on, there’s a very small number of people that know about the investigation, um, obviously super intentional for that purpose, and then once it’s done it still stays very small, however, it is subject to open records, okay?
Hall: Right.
Patton: Excuse me. Number two, I always like to tell people that you know, we don’t tolerate um, any kind of retaliation so, no one’s allowed to retaliate against you for participating in the conversation.
Hall: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: You’re not allowed to retaliate against anybody else who participates in a similar conversation and if you ever feel like that’s happening, I definitely want you to let me know so that I can look into those concerns separately.
Hall: Okay.
Patton: Does that make sense?
Hall: Yeah.
Patton: Okay. So, Meagan, I need to tell you that the concerns that have been raised are about you specifically and about sexual interactions that you have had allegedly with people that work with.
Hall: Okay?
Patton: So, I need you to be honest‐
Hall: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: ‐obviously, you are still a sworn Police Officer. You still have an obligation as an Officer to be honest. Um, but from a sixty‐thousand‐foot perspective, can you tell me why that concern would have been raised to me? And maybe also part two of that, why did you answer that question‐if‐if that is indeed true, why did you answer the question about intimate relationships that you didn’t have any knowledge? Can you answer those two parts for me? And why you think I would be doing an investigation into those kind of behaviors?
Hall: I mean, this one’s not necessarily, I mean it’s of second shift and not between. I know uh Saing and Cummings, he had said that he had a thing with her a while back.
Patton: Mm‐hmm, mm‐hmm.
Hall: Um, I’m going to be honest I, myself and Officer Holladay, we had a moment.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Hall: I mean, it wasn’t on shift or anything, it was after like a game but um, I mean, honestly I’ve felt like shit about it. It was a mistake and I know conflict of interest and all that, I shouldn’t‐I shouldn’t have done that but it‐
Patton: So, tell me about where that‐where that took place.
Hall: It was at his house. Okay, was it at a party?
Patton: Okay, was it at a party?
Hall: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: Was it at a football party?
Hall: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: Okay. Who else was there?
Hall: Uh, Maggs, Womack, uh Cohea stopped by but he was only there for like an hour when the game was on, and then it was like people that he knew, or his family knew, that came over but I’ve‐I’ve never seen them before.
Patton: Okay.
Hall: I believe that’s everyone.
Patton: And while I apologize for asking graphic questions, it’s part of the confirmation, can you tell me what happened between you and Officer Holladay at his house?
Hall: Uh, we had intercourse.
Patton: Okay. Is anybody else that was at that party aware of that interaction?
Hall: I don’t know.
Patton: Okay.
Hall: People make assumptions all the time, so.
Patton: Okay, okay.
Hall: I’m sure there’s something in there.
Patton: Okay, alright. Um, is that the only time it happened with Officer Holladay?
Hall: There were a few times but it was a long time ago.
Patton: Okay. Um, do some of those include at his house, at hotels?
Hall: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: Okay. And you said it a few moments ago, but um, you said never on shift?
Hall: No.
Patton: Okay. And to your knowledge I’m not going to discover anything that would contradict that?
Hall: No.
Patton: Okay. Um so, you’ve got the handbook, right? Did you sit through the meeting that we had on the handbook?
Hall: Yes.
Patton: And you signed the document that said you would abide by it, right?
Hall: Yes.
Patton: Okay. So, on page 13 of the handbook, um, it is section uh 3.4, um there’s this paragraph I’m going to read to you, okay.
Hall: Yeah.
Patton: It’s on personal relationships. It says “If a personal, romantic, or intimate relationship is established between two or more employees post‐hire, is the responsibility and obligation of the employees involved to disclose the existence of that relationship to the supervisor, manager, City Administrator, or Human Resources. When a conflict, or potential conflict arises due to the relationship affecting employment, the City reserves the right to make any and all employment decisions in the best interest of the City.” Right? So, what that paragraph says is, if you and somebody else or more, become involved in a relationship um, you have an obligation to report that that’s happened, okay? So, um, is there any reason why you didn’t report that relationship to anybody?
Hall: I mean we weren’t dating.
Patton: I shouldn’t say‐I shouldn’t say relationship, maybe.
Hall: Yeah.
Patton: What about interaction?
Hall: I mean it’s personal, I‐honestly I didn’t even, I didn’t know I was supposed to report it.
Patton: Okay.
Hall: And it‐and it hasn’t ever affected the way we worked together.
Patton: Okay.
Hall: So, yeah. It just didn’t seem like‐I didn’t feel and he didn’t feel like there was a reason to report it.
Patton: Got it. Um so, I want to make a differentiating statement. What you do, or I do, or anybody else does in their personal life does not affect me or the City in any way. I have no thoughts or judgements on anybody that does things in their personal. However, as the paragraph says, when it affects City operation or employment, that’s when we get involved, right? So, this concern when it was brought, it was determined it does, and is affecting employment, which is why the investigation was started, okay? So‐
Hall: Can I ask how it’s‐I mean obviously, I had no idea there was any beef, especially towards me, because we all seem to work really well together.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Hall: Can I ask how it’s been affecting?
Patton: Well, yes and that will‐I think it will be answered by the next question that I’m going to ask you.
Hall: Okay.
Patton: Which is who else, besides Officer Holladay, have you been involved with?
Hall: No one.
Patton: Okay.
Hall: I mean obviously guys flirt all the time.
Patton: Okay.
Hall: Especially when there’s only six females.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Hall: But I mean, It was a few times thing with me and Larry, so.
Patton: Okay. Um, have you been involved with Sergeant Powell?
Hall: No. No, I mean, we’re really good friends because he helps train me a lot, but no. I wouldn’t‐no.
Patton: Okay. So, through the course of the investigation I have had others report to me that you and Officer Powell have been together. Specifically, performing oral sex, while on duty, at the Police substation.
Hall: I’m sorry, what?
Patton: That’s‐that’s the information that I was given early on to start the investigation. So, that‐that answers the question you know, “how‐why is it affecting City employment?” Because the information I have is that it was happening while on duty, in City property and I have had that confirmed through the investigation so far. I’m not done, I haven’t spoken to you but that’s why it’s a City issue, right? Which brings to light any other relationship, that’s why we’re looking at it holistically. But the concern was raised because it was reported to be happening on shift, in a City owned building. How‐help me understand, I‐I wasn’t there, I don’t know if it took place or not, I’m just here to try to understand why and how that’s been reported.
Hall: Can I ask who would have first reported that?
Patton: Um, I can’t answer that at this point because the investigation’s still open and ongoing so, those conversations are still confidential.
Hall: Okay. Is there a reason that they would assume that or bring that up at all?
Patton: They‐the confirmation on the act, I have been told came directly from you to the person who reported it to me. That you talked about the act, you talked about his size, what it looked like.
Hall: Is there any evidence of that?
Patton: Um, I don’t have video, if that’s what you’re asking about. I don’t have video but I just have that allegation that came in and then a confirmation of it through the course of another conversation.
Hall: So, it’s all word of mouth?
Patton: Right now, mm‐hmm.
Hall: Okay.
Patton: Which is why I’m having the conversation. I just want to understand, right? If‐if it happened, tell me. If it didn’t happen, you can tell me that too.
Hall: I don’t really understand how this has come up to even be in question.
Patton: It’s in question because it’s been reported that you‐
Hall: Right, I understand but why would‐
Patton: I don’t know why. I don’t know what the‐if there’s uh‐if there’s something happening behind the surface, I don’t know that yet.
Hall: I know many rumors spread about this place about sexual encounters and like most people I know rumors are rumors.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Hall: Some people make quick assumptions about things.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Hall: So, that‐
Patton: So, as far as your answer is‐
Hall: We had sex at the substation?
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Hall: Okay. Um, no, first of all.
Patton: Okay. And you’ve never been with Sergeant Powell?
Hall: No, he’s a Sergeant.
Patton: Okay, okay. Have you‐do you have any memory of you meeting him at the substation?
Hall: Yeah, absolutely.
Patton: Okay.
Hall: So, I‐I pick the forest, I mean, uh, anywhere on Holland Ridge, we call it the forest.
Patton: Yeah.
Hall: I pick that area a lot because I like drug traffic.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Hall: So, he’s the CSU and K9 supervisor so I‐he knows that I have an interest in it so he helps me out and at the substation he has saved videos of like tracks that he’s done, takedowns, vehicles that he’s thought had drugs in it, things like that. So, we go over videos like that and I’ll eat lunch over there because I don’t really like using the bathroom or eating at gas stations.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Hall: I try to stay away from the station during shift so I’m closer to my calls.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Hall: But other than that, I mean yeah, I go to the substation, but that’s about it.
Patton: So, you’ve been at the substation, you’ve been at the substation with him, inside.
Hall: Yeah.
Patton: But nothing‐your report is nothing happened?
Hall: Right.
Patton: Okay, okay. Outside of Larry Holladay and my questions about Sergeant Powell, is there anybody else that you have been involved with?
Hall: No. My husband, but‐
Patton: Right, they don’t work for us.
Hall: Right, no.
Patton: Okay. What about PMag?
Hall: No. No, he’s like a brother to me.
Patton: Okay. So, I have multiple reports of you and PMag, multiple times, your house, a three‐way with his wife‐
Hall: Oh, I’m sorry. A what?
Patton: A three‐way with his wife.
Hall: A three‐way with his wife?
Patton: Mm‐hmm. That your husband walked in on and got angry about‐
Hall: Having sex with him and his wife?
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Hall: What? Okay, can I just‐
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Hall: Why is it that? Oh god, I cry whenever I’m frustrated, I’m sorry.
Patton: It’s okay, there’s some Kleenex right behind that candy bowl there.
Hall: Why is it that females have a bad rep at this department?
Patton: I don’t know. I’m trying to put the pieces of this puzzle together.
Hall: Is this what people think of me? Do I have to come back? I don’t‐I don’t want to work in an environment like this if they’re thinking that about me.
Patton: I understand that.
Hall: I love this job so much.
Patton: I understand that.
Hall: Where‐where did any of this even come from? Like there’s been no conflict on the shift, no one ever says anything to me. I mean, I lay low, I do my job, I talk with people at work just because comradery but I’ve never had a feeling that anyone would be talking about me like this.
Patton: Mm‐hmm. And I’m sorry to ask you such intimate things but this‐this is the core of what the investigation is around is are these things happening at work‐
Hall: No.
Patton: Okay.
Hall: The only person I’ve been with is Larry‐
Patton: Okay.
Hall: ‐and it was just a few times.
Patton: Do‐do you have any thoughts, and I know this is hitting you, but do you have any thoughts on why others would be reporting that‐that’s not the case?
Hall: I have no idea. Like I said, it feels like everyone gets along really well.
Patton: Okay. Can you tell me about a hot tub party?
Hall: A hot tub party?
Patton: At Eric Staats’ boat house?
Hall: Yeah.
Patton: Who was there, what happened, what took place?
Hall: Uh, it was Eric, Brian, me, Maggs came, I think it was Memorial Day, his wife came for a little bit.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Hall: Uh, David Durham, his wife and kids came.
Patton: Okay.
Hall: And I think that was it.
Patton: Okay. What do you remember about what took place at that event?
Hall: I mean we all got really drunk and we stayed there because we couldn’t drive after.
Patton: Okay. Do you remember anything from an event in the hot tub?
Hall: We were all drinking, we did karaoke through David’s phone, but that’s it.
Patton: Do you remember at all um, I’m‐there’s a report that your top came off at one point, Eric helped
you fix it?
Hall: Yes, that is true.
Patton: Okay.
Hall: Yes. My bathing suit was a little loose and it fell off.
Patton: Okay.
Page 11 of 17
Hall: I was drunk, I didn’t even realize that because he was behind me‐
Patton: Right, that was the report too because you weren’t at a place to understand what was going on.
Hall: Right, yeah, I wasn’t. It did come off but I‐he helped, he put it back on for me.
Patton: Okay. And then you spent the night on the boat, right? One‐one night, maybe more?
Hall: Yeah, it was one night.
Patton: Okay.
Hall: He had like six rooms, so I slept in one of the rooms.
Patton: Okay. And were you by yourself?
Hall: Yes.
Patton: Okay.
Hall: Yes.
Patton: And did um‐so, David and his family were already on the boat when you got there, right?
Hall: Mm‐hmm. I showed up probably at like 10 or 11.
Patton: And then PMag came that day?
Hall: Yes.
Patton: And his wife came the next day?
Hall: No, his wife stopped by, I think she was out shopping, she stopped by for a few hours and then she left.
Patton: Okay. Any reason that you know of why she didn’t come with him or stay or anything?
Hall: I don’t know. My husband couldn’t come because he was at work.
Patton: Okay.
Hall: So, that’s why I went.
Patton: Okay.
Hall: But I don’t know why she didn’t stay, she probably had work in the morning.
Patton: Okay.
Hall: She has to work in the mornings.
Patton: Okay. Um, so, you‐you remember drinking heavily, right?
Hall: Yes.
Patton: Did you fall down the stairs that night too?
Hall: I did, yeah.
Patton: Okay. Um, have you ever sent nudes to other Officers on shift?
Hall: Yeah.
Patton: Do you remember who you sent those to?
Hall: Uh, I know Maggs, [inaudible], Gavin. They were‐they were showing dick pics on shift, so.
Patton: Okay. Who else?
Hall: I mean, Larry, obviously.
Patton: Okay. Anybody else?
Hall: Uh‐uh.
Patton: Um, did they ask for those? They asked for them?
Hall: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: Okay. Every single person asked for them?
Hall: I mean, me and Larry were different.
Patton: Right, yeah.
Hall: But yeah, I mean topics came up and like hey.
Patton: Mm‐hmm. Um, is it inaccurate timing that you and Larry were together the last time maybe, three weeks ago, four weeks ago, something like that.
Hall: Whenever the‐which game was it? I don’t remember which game it was, it was probably a month or so ago.
Patton: Okay. So, it was about that timeline.
Hall: Yeah.
Patton: Okay, okay. Um, alright. So, nothing with Sergeant Powell?
Hall: No.
Patton: Nothing with PMag?
Hall: Other than the pictures, no.
Patton: Mm‐hmm. Okay. Um, so, names you mentioned from the football party, you didn’t mention in the pictures which was like Womack, Cohea‐
Hall: Oh god, no. No.
Patton: Okay, okay. Okay. Um, and your response still is that any interactions that nothing happened on shift?
Hall: Correct.
Patton: Okay, okay. Okay. Um, when you had your incident last week‐
Hall: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: ‐um, who did you call to notify that something was happening, like who did you reach out to at the department?
Hall: Sergeant Powell was supervisor that night. So, I told him I had to go to the doctor.
Patton: Okay.
Hall: And I didn’t know when I would be back.
Patton: Right.
Hall: Um, once I got to‐because they took me to my therapist first.
Patton: Okay.
Hall: And they told me it’s not‐it’s not their policy to call, that they would call for me but it would be better if it came from me‐
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Hall: ‐to like, admin [inaudible] Um, so I called Lieutenant Kaul‐or Captain Kaul‐
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Hall: Because he was our Lieutenant so we had a really good relationship, so I kind of trusted him with the information.
Patton: Mm‐hmm, okay.
Hall: And then he relayed the information on.
Patton: Okay. Did you call Patrick?
Hall: Did I call Patrick?
Patton: Mm‐hmm, call or text Patrick.
Hall: I texted him that I had a rough week.
Patton: Okay.
Hall: I kind of texted him what all was going on.
Patton: Okay.
Hall: Like I said, we’re really good friends.
Patton: Okay. Um, did you call or text Ty? McGowan?
Hall: Later, I think later on.
Patton: Okay.
Hall: Yeah.
Patton: Okay. Like last week, this week?
Hall: It was when I got back, I told him because he’s kind of the one that kind of helped me not get hired here, but helped me through all the training and stuff and kind of get prepared to be hired. So, we’ve always‐confidant I guess.
Patton: Mm‐hmm, mm‐hmm. Have you seen him this week?
Hall: Uh‐uh.
Patton: Um, you didn’t go to his house on Sunday?
Hall: This Sunday? No.
Patton: This past Sunday?
Hall: Uh‐uh, I was still at the hospital this Sunday.
Patton: Okay. The‐the, I may have my dates wrong, what’s today?
Hall: Today’s the 16th.
Patton: 16th, I do have my dates wrong. Um, hang on. Um, you were‐okay, so you were still in this Sunday?
Hall: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: So, was it the previous Sunday that you‐did you go to his house the previous Sunday?
Hall: Mm‐hmm. I went over to talk to him because I’ve been having a rough time.
Patton: Okay, okay. Is that a normal thing that you do with him or is that just a one off‐
Hall: No, I was just wanting someone to talk to that I knew wouldn’t spread what I’ve been going on.
Patton: Okay.
Hall: Talk about what I’ve been going through.
Patton: Okay.
Hall: So, I just went over there to kind of talk with him and help me calm down a little bit.
Patton: Okay.
Hall: I probably was only over there for like an hour or two.
Patton: Okay. Did anything happen between the two of you?
Hall: No.
Patton: Okay. Did he ever receive nudes from you?
Hall: Nudes?
Patton: Nude pictures.
Hall: No.
Patton: Okay. Okay, I think that’s all the questions I have. Um, I want to acknowledge that while I’m not in your situation, these conversations are uncomfortable, for all parties.
Hall: Right.
Patton: Um‐um so, a couple things Meagan, First, you’re on paid administrative leave now, you’re going to stay on paid administrative leave‐
Hall: Yeah.
Patton: ‐pending the outcome of this investigation, when the investigation is complete then we will make some assessments on returning to work.
Hall: Okay.
Patton: So, the investigation needs to complete before we can get to our previous conversation and all the steps that were necessary in that, okay?
Hall: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: Um, while the investigation is ongoing um, I do need you to not have any conversations about the investigation with anybody else because that can hamper my process of just trying to sort out where’s the truth, what happened, what didn’t.
Hall: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: Um, so, that’s‐that’s my expectation is that you will hold that confidential. That doesn’t include your husband, obviously. That‐I don’t‐I can’t and nor do I restrict those conversations but within within people that work for the City um, you should not be discussing this case, okay?
Hall: Yeah.
Patton: Um, I would expect that there would be a follow‐up conversation. I don’t know when that will take place. Um, today’s Friday, my assumption will be mid to late next week is when this investigation will be finishing.
Hall: Okay.
Patton: Um, there will be some follow up conversation either from myself or from command staff um, as far as kind of what‐what shakes down when we understand all of the pieces and why things were being told and where the truth is.
Hall: Can I say something?
Patton: Of course.
Hall: Since you know, this is a situation that I’m in.
Patton: Yes.
Hall: Given the nature of it um, why haven’t other investigations been done about other supervisors or Officers on shift about something like this because it’s very obvious that other things have been going on?
Patton: I‐I mean‐
Hall: Between people of supervision.
Patton: I’m very open to hearing about them. I can only chase down what I hear. So, if you have information that you’d like to share about that I’d be more than welcome to hear about that.
Hall: Yeah, because I wouldn’t want to put other people through this but I just don’t understand how this came about and even though this‐I mean obviously, guys will be guys so, conversations being provoked uh, as sexual favors being provoked, even through command staff, clearly have been going on and‐
Patton: ‐you have‐
Hall: ‐there’s never been anything‐
Patton: ‐you have information of members command staff that have been asking for sexual favors?
Hall: Not asking, hinting.
Patton: Okay. To you directly?
Hall: Yes.
Patton: Okay. Who?
Hall: Sergeant Watson.
Patton: Okay. Tell me about that.
Hall: So, I posted a picture uh, I was going to some training, I was uh, it was like a DUI interrogation for Court type of thing.
Patton: Okay.
Hall: And I posted a picture, I had like a blazer on or something like that, and he was like “Looking good, Officer Hall.” And then‐it’s not really like asking or anything but he definitely was hinting at like working out like “Oh, I’ve got some moves to show you. We could find a time or place if you want.” Never like directly asking.
Patton: Is this through text or Facebook, what?
Hall: It was through Facebook but I deleted the messages.
Patton: Okay.
Hall: But he definitely‐I looks he’ll give during shift, things like that, certain just comments he’ll make every now and then.
Patton: Okay.
Hall: Things like that and obviously I was just going to brush it off but it kind of made me uncomfortable.
Patton: Okay. When did that take place, do you remember a timeline?
Hall: It was, god it was probably a year ago.
Patton: Okay, okay.
Hall: But I just, that was, I didn’t say anything obviously but that was just‐because I’ve heard from other Officers that he’s very friendly to female Officers so, I don’t know who all he’s been asking and I posted a picture on Facebook that hot tub day.
Patton: Okay.
Hall: Um, in like a bathing suit. I posted it on Facebook and he kind of commented on it, not necessarily like “Oh, looking good.” Or anything like that‐wait through a message he had and he was like “Well, it looks like you’re having a good time.”
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Hall: Or stuff like that, that’s not very professional for, especially in a bathing suit for a supervisor to comment, I wouldn’t think.
Patton: Mm‐hmm, okay.
Hall: But it’s not the first I’ve heard of him just being very nice towards Officers that are female.
Patton: Okay, okay. Thank you for telling me that. Is there anybody else that has made you feel uncomfortable or have been unprofessional in that manner towards you?
Hall: No, it’s just him.
Patton: Okay.
Hall: I mean, I’m sure there’s other things going on that people just aren’t talking about but.
Patton: Okay, okay. Well, my commitment to you is that I will look into that.
Hall: Okay.
Patton: That’s my job.
Hall: And like I said, I don’t have like the messages or anything anymore.
Patton: Okay, yeah. Okay. Um, alright. So, um I don’t have anymore questions on this and I’m going to stop the recording simply because I’m going to reference our previous conversation which I do not want to be on tape, regarding medical stuff, so.
Hall: Yeah.
Interview of Officer Vielka Brizendine (371)
Patton: We are, I’ve been working on an investigation, you may or may not know about it.
Brizendine: Yeah, I’ve heard a little bit but not much.
Patton: So, before I dive into any questions, DC has a form he wants to go over with you.
Hatcher: Are you familiar with *Garrity?
*(Garrity is a set of rights for law enforcement officers that states that they must answer questions in an Administrative Investigation, or they can be terminated, however, nothing the officer says can be used against him/her in a related criminal case)
Brizendine: No, I’m not.
Hatcher: Yeah, you are you did it when we uh‐when I
Brizendine: You didn’t Garrity me.
Hatcher: Yeah, I did.
Brizendine: No, you‐oh my god.
Hatcher: We can go over it again. Yeah, both of you.
Brizendine: No.
Hatcher: Okay.
Brizendine: Okay.
Hatcher: Spell your first name.
Brizendine: V‐I‐E‐L‐K‐A.
Hatcher: Spell your last name.
Brizendine: B‐R‐I‐Z‐E‐N‐D‐I‐N‐E.
Hatcher: What’s today? The 28th.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Hatcher: Do we have a number yet on this?
Patton: Uh, no. We’re not going to get one, it’s just internal HR. And she signs down here whenever she reads.
Hatcher: Alright. Review over that please.
Patton: And obviously, when you’re done, if you have questions, ask before you sign.
Brizendine: Oh, yeah.
Hatcher: Yeah.
Brizendine: Okay. There you go.
Patton: Awesome. So, um, first thing I want to ask you um, so, you’re here because your name has come up during the course of the investigation. And my job in this is just to sort out any facts that are problematic for the City, okay. So, the first thing I want to ask you is what do you know about the investigation that I’ve been doing for the last couple of weeks?
Brizendine: I mean, I just noticed Ty’s car was out back, Lugo’s car was out back, Sergeant Powell hasn’t been here and then y’all just recently put CID Seneca’s car up front. Those were the only things that I’ve noticed. I mean, no one on third shift or second shift or anyone has said anything but, you know, I always text Powell and he said that he was on suspended leave. He said that he didn’t want to get me involved so he didn’t tell me anything that was going on. Pretty much looped it around to being about Meagan, because if you look on his Facebook, he deleted Meagan off his Facebook. So, I was like, it probably has something to do with her. But me and her don’t talk anyways so. Not much really that I know other than I guess she was tied to those people.
Patton: Okay, okay. So, more than any conversation, you’ve put some pieces together simply by noticing who’s car is around any everything.
Brizendine: Yeah, that’s what‐
Patton: It’s not typical.
Brizendine: ‐yeah. Because I mean you can always see like, whenever stuff with Sal happened, you know, they always park the cars in the back and it’s like, why is his car here? Because people don’t leave their cars here unless it’s like you know, like Dwyer where they don’t want to drive their car back to their apartments and stuff like that, so.
Patton: Yep, yep. Okay. Besides texting Powell, have you had any communication with Ty, Lugo, or Seneca?
Brizendine: Uh, yeah, I mean, me and Seneca, we talk a little bit.
Patton: Okay.
Brizendine: And then Ty, I wished him a Merry Christmas, I said “How are you doing?” He said “Not good.” I said “Is there anything I can help?” he said “Nah, it’s above your paygrade.” I was like “Oh, okay.” And then that’s‐I don’t‐
Patton: Were you guys talking on the phone or were you just texting?
Brizendine: Oh, we were just texting.
Patton: Okay.
Brizendine: But that was it, I mean, I don’t talk to Meagan. And then Lugo we go to jiujitsu together but he hasn’t been in it for a minute. So, I haven’t seen him.
Patton: Okay, okay.
Brizendine: Yeah.
Patton: Um so, I want to ask some very specific questions. The first thing I want to offer to you is if you would like another female in the room?
Brizendine: No, you’re good. No.
Patton: Okay, okay. I just want to be sensitive to that.
Brizendine: Yeah, you’re good.
Patton: There’s nothing worse than sitting across from a boss and an HR guy and having these conversations. But um, can you tell me about a gathering um that I’m told you were at, um at Meagan’s house um prior to being officially hired. My understanding is you were in the process.
Brizendine: Yeah, I was in the process of it.
Patton: Okay. Tell me about that gathering.
Brizendine: Uh‐
Patton: Who was there, what happened?
Brizendine: It was me and Ty and her and her husband.
Patton: Okay.
Brizendine: And they were like trying to do some type of like Uno game, I think it was. Some type of card game.
Patton: Okay, okay.
Brizendine: And they were like trying to do some strip game or something and I was like “I’m not stripping down.” And they were like “Oh, come on, you got to.” And I was like “Um, no. Uh‐uh.” I said “I’m not doing that.” And so, they, I think it was Ty and Jed, I think they stripped down to like maybe they take their shirt off or their pants off and then they got to me and they were like “Come on, you
have to do it.” And I was like “No, uh‐uh. I’m not doing that.” So, they were like “Come on, come on. You have to.” And they were like kind of trying to take my clothes off and I was like “No. Uh‐uh. No, no, no.” So, I actually texted somebody and I was like “Hey, yo, will you come pick me up?” Because I was too intoxicated to drive and I was like “I’m not going to drive home drunk.” One, because I don’t know where the hell I’m at, and then two, I kind of don’t know this area very well so, I don’t know if I’ll get pulled over. I was like, I’m just not going to do it, you know.
Patton: Yep.
Brizendine: So, I texted somebody, they came and got me, and then I left and they were still there when I left. So.
Patton: Okay.
Brizendine: Yeah.
Patton: Um, do you remember Meagan getting undressed?
Brizendine: I think she did. Yeah, but I was like, I was like this because it was her on the side, the very far side, and then Ty was beside me, I think and then I was on the corner of the couch and Jed was actually the one that was like “Hey, Meagan, like if she doesn’t want to get undressed, leave her alone.” So, Jed was actually taking up for me and I was just like “No, this isn’t my type of person.” So, me and Jed actually while I was waiting for my ride, he came out on the porch and actually apologized to me and was like “Hey, I’m really sorry.” So, we smoked a cigarette and I was like “I just‐I’m not that type of person, I don’t want to do that.” And so, I was like “I’ve made that mistake before and I don’t want to make that mistake again.” So, he was like “Yeah, no, I understand. You don’t have to do anything that makes you uncomfortable.” And they were like “You know, you can stay here if you feel like‐like you’re too intoxicated to drive.” And they were kind of trying to keep me there, like they were like kind of “We don’t want you to leave.” And I was like “No, uh‐uh. I’m good, I want to go home.” And so, I just called somebody, when he pulled up, I think Meagan‐Meagan, either Meagan or Jed walked me down and walked me to my friend‐my friend’s truck. So, then I left.
Patton: Okay.
Brizendine: Yeah.
Patton: Um‐
Hatcher: Did you just come back and get your car later or did you drive? How did you get there?
Brizendine: Oh, no, I drove my Camaro, I had my Camaro at the time. Uh, man, I think my buddy because I went and stayed at a hotel, I think my buddy, I think he dropped me back off. Yeah, he did! He dropped me back off because I remember Meagan texted me and was like “Hey” Because I never deleted any of my text messages from Meagan. And so, he was like “Hey, I can take you to your car.” I said‐he brought me back to my car, yeah. And then Meagan was like “Hey, I saw your car was gone. Are you good?” I was like “Yeah, I’m good.” I drove home the next day once I sobered up.
Patton: Okay. DC, I neglected to bring my handbook. Can you grab yours?
Hatcher: Yeah.
Patton: [inaudible] copy of it.
Hatcher: Yeah.
Patton: Um so, you know, obviously, when I‐when I ask questions, you know, you probably have understand already, I have the answers already, I’m asking you because I want confirmation.
Brizendine: Right.
Patton: So, I knew all of that, that was great, knew that somebody came to picked you up, I’ve been told you and your husband were fighting that night and that’s why you called another buddy to pick you up.
Brizendine: Yeah.
Patton: And all that, okay.
Brizendine: Yeah.
Patton: Um, so when he comes back with the handbook, it’s the moment uh that I want to read a paragraph to you in the handbook because what we’re talking about is outside of work. Um, and I want to make a very clear distinction that what anybody does outside of work is not any of my concern.
Brizendine: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: However, when what happens outside of work comes into work and starts affecting work, that’s when it becomes an HR issue. So, you’ve got a copy of the handbook, right?
Brizendine: Yeah.
Patton: Yeah. Did you sit through one of those boring classes I led, and you probably signed a document that said‐
Brizendine: Kind of. I mean, I have that in my‐my car.
Patton: In your patrol car, okay.
Brizendine: Well, not patrol car, my car, yeah.
Patton: Okay.
Brizendine: I’ve read over it.
Patton: Okay. So, page 13, um section 3.4 says, if a personal, romantic or intimate relationship is established between two or more employees post‐hire, it is the responsibility and obligation of the employees involved to disclose the relationship to the supervisor, manager, City Administrator, Human Resources. When a conflict or potential conflict arises due to the relationship affecting employment, the City reserves the right to make any and all employment decisions in the best interest.
Brizendine: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: So, I brought this up throughout the course of the investigation because it’s an important paragraph. One, it says what happens outside of work, again, not my concern. However, when a personal romantic or intimate relationship begins between two or more employees, then it becomes a work issue if it has not been disclosed.
Brizendine: Yeah.
Patton: So, I just wanted to kind of make sure that we talked about that because we’re asking questions that were before you got um, officially hired, correct? You‐
Brizendine: Yeah, I think‐
Patton: Had you signed an offer letter? My understanding is you completed your PT and your‐some testing.
Brizendine: Yeah, I had all of that but then I got booted back down but they kept that on file, like Chief allowed me to keep that stuff on file. I mean, I had to go retest for the psych dude, because the psych dude was the same one for Metro and Metro had failed me.
Patton: Okay.
Brizendine: So, in that time frame I had to go back to the same dude for you guys. And then I already told Ty, and I told Chief he was going to fail me. And he already told me he was going to fail me again. So, he was like “Well, just go through the process.” So, I think that’s where the point I was at, because I think it was like a November? It was cold outside.
Patton: Okay.
Brizendine: Because I remember I had a jacket on and I bought my Challenger as soon as I signed the paper for‐to work here, I was like, I’m going to buy my Challenger. So, yeah.
Patton: Got it. Okay, okay.
Hatcher: So, you had a conditional offer based on your physical and your psychological?
Brizendine: I don’t think we had signed it yet, though.
Hatcher: Right. But that’s usually, we give you a conditional offer, those are pending the outcome of those two things.
Brizendine: Well the conditional offer comes before the psych, and I signed the 1745 on and then I failed the psych, so, they took the conditional offer away. So, I think during November I hadn’t signed it yet. Because May 18th, I think is my like conditional hire date.
Hatcher: Okay.
Brizendine: So, if that happened in November it would have been like a little bit before. Because I don’t think Meagan‐Meagan hadn’t gone to the academy yet.
Hatcher: Right.
Brizendine: So, no.
Hatcher: Okay.
Patton: Okay, okay. So, back to the party. So, the information that I received was at this party, was all the people that you mentioned.
Brizendine: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: And that Meagan had gotten completely naked.
Brizendine: Not while I was‐not while I was there.
Patton: Not while you were there.
Brizendine: No.
Patton: And that you had gotten down to your bra and underwear.
Brizendine: Yeah, I think that was about right because I always wear spandex, so.
Patton: Okay, okay. And at that point, the guys were trying to get you to remove more, and you were like not doing it.
Brizendine: Yeah.
Patton: Okay. Were you a part of any conversations with that group that night about anything additional? Any kind of sexual play, anything thing that they were going to participate in after?
Brizendine: No. Because like I said, I left.
Patton: Okay.
Brizendine: And I texted Ty the next day, I was like “Hey, Ty. When did you leave?” he goes “I left as soon as you left.” But I was like, I never saw him like actively getting ready to leave, so.
Patton: Okay. Was it‐was there any talk of a foursome?
Brizendine: No.
Patton: Okay.
Brizendine: No.
Patton: Well I guess it would be five, there was five members there. Okay. No talk of that?
Brizendine: Five?
Patton: Well I have you, Ty, Meagan‐nope, that’s only four.
Brizendine: Yeah.
Patton: Sorry, okay, okay. No talk of that?
Brizendine: No, not when I was there. Not that I remember, no.
Patton: Okay, okay. Um, thank you for that. I already had all of that, that’s good confirmation. Um, what do you know firsthand about any relationships, intimate relationships that have occurred within the LaVergne Police Department?
Brizendine: Just the one about Meagan‐I mean not Meagan, Cummings and Sal. That was it.
Patton: Okay, okay. What rumors have you heard?
Brizendine: About them two?
Patton: No, anybody else.
Brizendine: Well I mean, the one with Powell and her obviously, because‐
Patton: Powell and Meagan?
Brizendine: Meagan, yeah.
Patton: Who‐who do you remember hearing that from?
Brizendine: I just talked to Powell about it.
Patton: Okay.
Brizendine: Yeah.
Patton: What did he tell you?
Brizendine: Nothing. He just said that it had something to do with Meagan and he didn’t want to drag me into it. So, he wasn’t going to‐
Patton: Oh, current conversation.
Hatcher: Recently.
Patton: Right.
Brizendine: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Patton: Did you have any knowledge of anybody having intimate relationships, sexual contact of any kid, prior to this investigation?
Brizendine: No.
Patton: There was no talk amongst Officers?
Brizendine: No, the only thing I can think of is like her and Magliocco was always hanging out. But that was it, I mean, there was always people that were like “Oh, I think they’re doing something.” Because Mags is in like some type of open relationship or something.
Patton: Did he share that with you?
Brizendine: Yeah, he told me that. So, I was like uh, I don’t want to be any part of that. I don’t see that that’s correct according to my religion, so. You do you.
Patton: Yep. Um, what time line did he share that with you at? That he was in an open relationship.
Brizendine: Mags? Uh, I don’t know, like a couple of months ago?
Patton: Okay.
Brizendine: Yeah.
Hatcher: How did that come up?
Brizendine: I think they were talking about like how they don’t, him and his wife don’t sleep together a lot and he said that he found someone else. I was like, I was like “You shouldn’t do that, because eventually you’re going to get in trouble.” And he goes “No, no, no, no. My wife’s okay with it. She does the same thing.” And I was like “Uh, that’s not a good idea. Not in our job.” And he goes “Well, they can’t say anything.” And I was like “Uhhhh, I don’t know. Technically, it’s not in policy but it’s in the code of ethics and ethics is tied back into the policy. So, you can technically get fired for that.” But that was pretty much it, I just told him, I was like “I don’t agree with it, I don’t think that’s a good idea, it’s probably going to ruin your relationship. But that’s just my opinion.” So, yeah.
Patton: Okay. So, besides Powell and PMag, who else have you heard rumors about?
Brizendine: That’s pretty much it. Like‐like I said, Sal, I mean you didn’t mention that, but other than that, nobody. I try to keep to myself because I don’t like to be a part of these things.
Patton: Okay.
Brizendine: Yeah.
Patton: Can you‐would you have any reason why somebody has put you in?
Brizendine: Saying anything?
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Brizendine: Yeah, because I mean like, obviously, you’re female, everyone’s going to try. And I’m like, no. No, thank you.
Patton: Have you ever received any nude images or dick pics from any Officers?
Brizendine: Yeah.
Patton: Okay. Who have you received images from?
Brizendine: Powell tried.
Patton: Recently or a long time‐
Brizendine: Uh, it was a long time ago. And I was just like “No, thanks. I’m good.”
Hatcher: Which Powell?
Brizendine: Sergeant Powell.
Patton: So, he did send one to you, or just‐
Brizendine: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: He did.
Brizendine: Yeah.
Patton: Did you ever send one back to him?
Brizendine: Nope.
Patton: Okay. Who else have you received or had anyone tried?
Brizendine: I think that’s it, but sent one? I think that’s it.
Patton: Okay.
Brizendine: I told‐well, Powell he‐he Snapchatted something and I Snapchatted something back but I think I was like in a robe or something.
Patton: Okay.
Brizendine: I don’t really remember though. Because it was on Snapchat.
Patton: Yep. So, I’ll remind you of the Garrity form.
Brizendine: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: Okay. So, you have an obligation to tell the truth, right.
Brizendine: Yeah.
Patton: So, you think you were in a robe, you know you were in a robe, could you have been nude or?
Brizendine: I don’t remember what it was but yeah, it could have been. I’m not going to lie and say no, but yeah, I think‐
Patton: Not lying is a very good choice.
Brizendine: Yeah. No, I think I did send him something but I don’t think it was like‐like anything down south, no. I don’t think.
Patton: Okay.
Brizendine: But like I said, I don’t remember what it was, it was quite a bit a while ago.
Patton: Okay.
Brizendine: Yeah, other than that, no. People have always made advances but I didn’t do anything, so.
Patton: Okay. Um, do you have any knowledge of kind of back parking lot, shift change gatherings, where people are hanging out and sharing dick pics?
Brizendine: Nope. Nope, uh‐uh. I didn’t, as soon as I get out of briefing, I go to my car, I don’t talk to nobody, I don’t want to talk to nobody. You can always ask people, because people always goes to
Sergeant Howell and be like “Well, she doesn’t talk to anybody.” And he tries to write me up for being unfriendly. So, nope.
Patton: He tries to write you up for being unfriendly?
Brizendine: Yeah, he says that I don’t talk to people and that you know, I’ve lost the respect of people because I don’t go up there and talk with them for an hour after shift and I don’t want to do that. I’d rather go out and do my job.
Patton: Has he made it appear that that’s some sort of a expectation and a requirement?
Brizendine: Mm‐hmm, mm‐hmm.
Hatcher: When‐when was that?
Brizendine: He’s done it a couple of times. He said that I don’t go out and talk to people and he says that I’m unfriendly, he says that I’m insubordinate, that I don’t‐I‐I have lost the respect of all my fellow employees. I’m like “Okay. I’m not here for popularity, I’m not here to be anybody’s best friend.” So, yeah.
Patton: Are‐are you‐that makes you get emotional.
Brizendine: Yeah.
Patton: Yeah. Tell me‐tell me about that.
Brizendine: Because he‐he’s always picking on me, like he won’t leave me alone. So, I don’t like that.
Patton: In what other ways does he pick on you besides that comment?
Brizendine: So, like a couple of months ago he was like “You need to stop pulling people out of their car.” So, I was like “Okay.” So, I asked a couple of people, like “Does he do that to you guys?” And he’s like “No.” And then Sergeant Watson and him tried to sit down and like come to me and try to write me up for it and I was like “But everybody else pulls people out of the car.” And then December 24th, he came to me again after a DUI and he was like “You need to stop pulling people out of the car, we’re going to have an issue.” And he already suspended me once, so I was like, I’m just scared. I don’t want to lose my job because he won’t leave me alone.
Hatcher: Okay. Let me‐let me ask you a question.
Patton: I’m going to grab something.
Hatcher: Yeah. Let‐I’m trying to understand the context of‐what‐what do you mean by don’t pull people out of the car?
Brizendine: Like, on my DUIs, I like to separate them from the car. So, like when I pull them over I’ll be like “Hey, bud.” You know, especially like, if they’ve already actively kind of ran from me, I, you know, I’ll go ahead and be like “Hey, go ahead and step out of the car.” And he doesn’t like that. He says it’s an Officer safety issue and I’m like “Everybody else does it.” And he’s like “I don’t care, you’re‐you’re going to stop doing that.” And I’m like, he’s always watching my videos, and seeing what I do wrong, but he doesn’t look at anyone else’s stuff and everyone else does like stupid stuff and it’s not fair. Like, they don’t get in trouble for anything. Like, Woodard constantly does stupid stuff, Cunningham does things that are not safe, he‐even Sergeant Howell has done stuff that’s Officer safety issues and he never gets in trouble for it and he’s constantly on me. It’s like he’s trying to build a file to have me fired and it’s not fair.
Hatcher: Okay. Well, first I’m going to tell you, what I do know, I know that you got suspended because of the citation issue.
Brizendine: Yeah, but he‐
Hatcher: And that’s the extent. Everything else that you’re talking about, I have no idea that this is going on.
Brizendine: Well, even the thing though. He said it’s not a big deal and then when he suspended me he said “I personally suspended you.” I was like “That’s‐that’s so counter intuitive. He said “It’s not a big deal, it’s up to Lieutenant Durham if anything happens.” But he doesn’t see that it’s that big of a deal. And then he says, he used the reason that I got suspended, he even told me that.
Hatcher: Did you bring that to Lieutenant Durham?
Brizendine: Why would I? They’re not going to do anything.
Hatcher: You don’t know that.
Brizendine: Well, they haven’t.
Hatcher: You‐you can make an assumption, okay. Because everything that you’re saying as far as that that you’re being targeting, that you’re being picked on and that it’s an isolated issue because there seems to be no issues with anybody else, just you. Alright. That’s quite a bit of‐of weight, okay. And now that I know it, it’s going to get known. Because I can’t let that go. You understand?
Brizendine: Well like, I tried to like, my husband told me, “Journal everything.” He was like‐
Hatcher: Absolutely.
Brizendine: And so, I was like okay, because the first time he got onto me he was like “Stop pulling people out of the car.” Then I went around and asked people and they were like “No, I do it all the time.” And then I started like paying attention, I was like, every Officer, Cline, almost all of his stops he pulls everyone out of the car and I’m like, I feel like it’s just because I’m a girl he thinks I can’t handle myself. And it’s like, I can fight. I’m fine, I’m okay. And he‐then I went back and I talked to him and Sergeant Watson at the same time and they were like “No, we never said that. We never said that.” And then when we were out there in the hallway he was like “Stop doing it.” He was like “I’m telling you this, like we’ve already had this conversation.” And I was like “Yeah, we did and you said I could do it.” And he said “No.” he said “I don’t let anyone on this shift do that.” And that’s not true. Woodard has pulled people out of cars all the time and I don’t see why it’s an issue. Like, if they ran from me or even a little bit where they’re slow rolling, I want to separate them from the car as much as possible because of alcohol or whatever else. You can tell a lot from people’s body language. He just was like, he’s just always trying to pick at me on something. It’s like everything‐he doesn’t know anything about me. The only time he has a conversation with me is about something that I’m doing wrong. Like even the Cops for Court thing. He handed me the paper and was like “Fill this out.” And that was it. So, I thought it was a punishment, so I was telling someone else “Yeah, I’m pretty sure this is a punishment.” And he said “It’s not a punishment.” Because he heard me saying it and I was like “Well, you didn’t say anything.” And he was like “No, the administration wants you to go to this.” And I was like “Well, you know you could have said it in a nicer way or you could have told me like what it was about.” Because I don’t even know what it was about. I thought it was a punishment because I fat‐fingered a daggum citation. And like it just frustrations me because I wrote 179 citations, your next best Officer wrote like 40, and like, it’s not something to be proud of on the numbers but at least I’m being productive. You don’t get onto the people that go 10 hours and don’t even do anything. So, it’s just like really frustrating.
Hatcher: Okay. Well‐
Patton: Let me add some commentary. Um, if that’s okay.
Hatcher: Yeah, please.
Patton: Um, first, um you’ve shared some things that are primarily an internal Police function and I will trust that DC handles that appropriately.
Hatcher: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: Um, you’ve made a statement in here that you feel uh, you didn’t use the word, but you used the language to describe it, that you’re being discriminated against because you’re a female. That’s a problem. We will look at that issue together. Um, and thank you for sharing. I will say this to you, V. Beyond the details of the investigation that I’ve been dealing with, I’ve uncovered um a number of people who have sat across from, primarily Chief, he’s on vacation today, but um, and have shared thoughts or concerns, I’m not going to say similar, because they’re not, but thoughts or concerns that aren’t relevant to the case, but to the job. And Chief has said “I did not know. And now that I know, I will change it.” So, we are in the process of taking the culture at LPD and flipping it on its head because what has been allowed is not going to be allowed and the behavior and the pressure that you are talking about if it can be substantiated, is not acceptable. From the HR team, I’m telling you that’s not acceptable for you to feel that way. Um, discrimination as a category, has to be very proved, right. Discrimination doesn’t work like “I feel like he’s discriminating against me because I’m a man, or I’m a white man.” Well, I can feel any way I want but I’ve got to prove that he is. And so, the steps that we take to prove are to investigate what you said and then to look at‐and because we’re‐you’re an Officer, everything is tracked. We know where the cars are, we know where you are, we know where reports are, we have videos, we can go back and verify that.
Brizendine: Yeah.
Patton: So, um and there is no retaliation. So, if you feel at all that after you leave today, there’s any retaliation on that topic, your obligation is to come directly to me or to that man to let us know. Because it’s our job to protect you when you come and share a concern um you know, I don’t, based on your reaction, I don’t think the concern is made up, okay. Obviously, that’s very problematic if somebody comes in here and makes up claims, right?
Brizendine: Right.
Patton: I don’t read that that’s what’s happening. Um but, you’re not allowed to be retaliated against for bringing a concern.
Brizendine: But like, it’s just, the thing is you know how people are always like “Oh, this is a very dangerous job.” I fear the people in uniform more than I fear the people on the outside.
Patton: Wow.
Brizendine: Like, it just sucks. Because it’s like I constantly get badgered on. And I get it, I’m a rookie, I make mistakes, I understand that but it’s like I’ll do one thing and he’ll just get all over me about it. And like Woodard, he’ll like‐he’ll have an obvious domestic violence and he’ll 87‐Union it. Where it’s like an unwanted guest and it’s like, I’ve even said on recording like “You’re going to get in trouble for doing that because eventually one of those people are going to kill someone and you’re just going to go oh, it’s an 87‐Union.” They didn’t want them to be there and it’s like, that’s not fair.
Hatcher: Okay. Let me ask you a question, on a situation such as that, did you report it?
Brizendine: No, because I knew Howell was just going to get on me. They were going to say something back to me because after‐after the investigation that you did last time, they just kind of like shut me out. That’s why I don’t want to say anything anymore.
Hatcher: Okay. The fact that you know that, okay, do you understand how chain of command works?
Brizendine: Yeah, but we don’t have a chain of command. It’s Sergeant Howell or nobody.
Hatcher: That’s not true. That’s not true. What’s your next line?
Brizendine: Lieutenant Durham, who’s never there.
Hatcher: That doesn’t mean he doesn’t have a phone, right. If you have a concern like that, you have to bring it forward, okay. We can’t stop things from happening if somebody just clams up and doesn’t say anything. Because they think that it’s just going to get swept under the rug.
Brizendine: I’m just scared to get in trouble. Like I don’t want to get fired for saying something like what if he doesn’t take it seriously and then it goes back on me.
Hatcher: Well, all you gotta do is a, it’s on recording, right?
Brizendine: Yeah. I even‐I made sure I kept my mic pack on, I said “You’re going to get in trouble for doing that. It’s an obvious 86.”
Patton: Do you remember what the last time was that that happened?
Brizendine: It was like a month ago.
Patton: A month ago.
Brizendine: Yeah, like‐
Patton: Could you, could you find the case and bring it to him?
Brizendine: Yeah. I mean, she freaking destroyed two PS5s and was throwing stuff and there was evidence. I’m not even sure if he went back and looked at the evidence.
Hatcher: Okay. Well, we’ll‐we’ll have to, when you’re talking about an 86, destroying property is not an 86.
Brizendine: No, but they were arguing.
Hatcher: I understand. But again, arguments in and of itself, now let’s look at the, make sure you understand the elements, okay. It’s not against the law to argue.
Brizendine: No.
Hatcher: Okay. So, you’re going to have to‐you’re going to have to expand on that. But we’ll talk about that another time because that’s going to get a little bit more involved, okay.
Brizendine: Yeah.
Hatcher: And I’m not sitting here trying to correct you. But in order for me to validate what’s going on I need to understand the elements as well.
Brizendine: Yeah.
Hatcher: Okay.
Brizendine: Well‐well maybe that’s something that needs to be explained, because the way it’s always been explained to me is if there’s an argument between a domestic you know, female and man then there needs to be a report being made.
Hatcher: Well, you can do‐you can do a report. Absolutely, you can do an 86‐Vic, right. There’s nothing that‐because that’s a CYA, right?
Brizendine: Yeah.
Hatcher: That’s not a problem. Plus the‐whatever, if that property belonged to somebody else or if it’s whatever, whether or not you’ve got an 86‐Paul or 83‐P or whatever, okay. All of that stuff should be documented, right.
Brizendine: Yeah.
Hatcher: Not just kissed off, is what you’re saying.
Brizendine: Yeah, like you shouldn’t be walking away from something like that.
Hatcher: Well when you say an obvious 86, we’re thinking about somebody got smacked.
Brizendine: I mean‐
Hatcher: Right, so‐
Brizendine: ‐taking the baby, throwing stuff around like, putting someone in fear, like I feel like that’s an 86.
Hatcher: Well, it is an 86, but it’s not necessarily an 86‐A.
Brizendine: No, but just Victor just doesn’t report to being made and there’s no reports being made.
Hatcher: Okay. So, that helps me to clarify it a little bit better.
Brizendine: Yeah, it’s not an Alpha, no.
Hatcher: Right, but when you say it’s an obvious 86 and nothing happened and that somebody’s going to kill somebody, then I’m‐I’m presuming that you’re talking about an assault.
Brizendine: Oh, no, no, no. Not this specific case.
Hatcher: Okay. Do you see where I’m working with this?
Brizendine: Yeah, right.
Hatcher: I understand exactly what you’re saying, okay.
Brizendine: Yeah.
Hatcher: And all he’s doing is downgrading it so he doesn’t have to cut any paper.
Brizendine: Right.
Hatcher: I get that, I get that. Okay, alright. We’ll get back to‐
Patton: I’m sorry that that’s been your experience.
Hatcher: It should be.
Patton: It shouldn’t be, shouldn’t be. And so‐
Hatcher: Okay.
Patton: Okay. You good, can I?
Brizendine: Yeah, you’re fine.
Patton: Okay, okay, okay. Um, have you had sexual relations or sexual encounters of any kind with any member of the LaVergne Police Department on duty or off duty?
Brizendine: Uh‐uh.
Patton: And again, thoughts on why your name along with other male names, might have been brought up?
Brizendine: Uh, just people always trying to be with me.
Hatcher: When you say people?
Brizendine: There’s other male Officers that always try, I mean, it’s just standard. [inaudible]
Patton: And what is‐can you tell me what the trying looks like? What does that look like from
[inaudible]?
Brizendine: Uh, they’re just like “Oh, if you ever want to meet up, let’s‐let’s go.” And I was like “No, don’t want to. I’m good.”
Patton: Can you tell me who has said that to you?
Brizendine: Um, I mean, pretty much everybody. [inaudible]
Hatcher: That’s pretty broad.
Patton: If I pulled out a shift list and started naming male names, it would be everybody?
Brizendine: Majority of them. I’d say majority of them.
Hatcher: On your watch or?
Brizendine: Not anyone on my shift, no.
Patton: What shift?
Brizendine: Not third shift, I don’t talk to anyone on third shift. It’s like first and second shift.
Patton: Okay. Um, okay, so, I’m going to do something that I did in a previous interview. I don’t think he has it here, give me one second, I’m going to step out and get what I need.
Hatcher: So, while we’re waiting, I understand you were talking about wanting to transfer.
Brizendine: Mm‐hmm.
Hatcher: Okay.
Brizendine: I told Chief and Chief said that I need to go to first shift.
Hatcher: Yeah. You have a better opportunity of being successful.
Brizendine: That’s what he said. I told him I trust whatever he wants me to do is what I’ll do.
Hatcher: Do you have any classes or anything coming up in the new year so far yet?
Brizendine: The Cops in Court thing.
Hatcher: Okay. When is that?
Brizendine: January 24th.
Hatcher: Okay. What days off are you right now?
Brizendine: Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday.
Hatcher: Okay. Alright, in the next coming weeks um, well we’ll have to do it before the 10th, we’re going to, we’ll schedule a meeting to sit down to talk about this other stuff, okay. So, we can get this all worked out, okay. Because I’m not going to tolerate it, and if you think that I am, you’re sadly mistaken, okay. And it’s not about getting somebody fired, if they’re not doing their job the way they’re supposed to V, I’m going to‐I’m going to address it. And I’m going to handle it because I’m not going to have that. We’ve come too far, we’ve worked too hard to try and make this department into something and then we have all of this garbage going on.
Brizendine: It just felt like, because like, people always just count it as “Oh well, it is what it is.” And it’s not. Like I want to come in and do my job and be left alone and if you don’t socialize and if you don’t be everybody’s best friend, it’s so hard. And that’s why I don’t ever say anything about stuff like this because if you do, then you’re going to get blackballed.
Hatcher: Well, here’s‐here’s what I would suggest that you‐that you learn to understand, okay. You don’t have to alienate yourself, right, and you can still speak to people, you don’t have to socialize, right, to let people know that you’re‐you’re not just you know “Everybody F you, and it’s just me”
Brizendine: Yeah.
Hatcher: Right. Because the reason that I say that and the reason that I think you need to understand that is because these are the people that are going to try and back you up and that are there for you and they want to trust that you’re going to be there for them. Part of that comes through communication and learning about each other. Doesn’t mean you have to know their family history, it don’t mean any of that stuff. Because I can assure you if you think that I’ve made it 30 years in this job by being Mr. Friendly, that ain’t me.
Brizendine: Yeah.
Hatcher: Okay. But it doesn’t mean that I won’t let‐I would take a bullet for anybody, I will.
Brizendine: Yeah.
Hatcher: I don’t give a damn if I don’t like you.
Brizendine: And that’s‐that’s how I try to be with Meagan like, you know, she still gets‐she gets upset about stuff and I just don’t even, I don’t talk to her.
Hatcher: There’s certain things that you know, you keep it at arm’s length because of history.
Brizendine: Yeah.
Hatcher: There’s a difference.
Brizendine: I just know like, I just don’t trust people.
Hatcher: Well, at some point in your career you have to learn to trust people. That doesn’t mean again that they need to know your life history, right.
Brizendine: Right.
Hatcher: Because that’s not what this is about. But they need to know that they’re going to be there for them when they need you and you‐and they’re going to be there for you when you need them.
Brizendine: I mean, I try to do my best to not be mean to people but it’s so hard. Because like it’s hard to explain to you if you’re not a female, but like, if you just flat out say no, those people are going to go back and talk about you so, you have to be very careful about how you like phrase stuff. And so, that’s why like it’s‐it’s just to the point where people are like “Hey, what’s your Snap?” I’m like “I’m good.” I don’t want to‐I don’t want to talk to anybody. I just want to be left alone. I don’t want friends, I don’t want to talk to anyone, I don’t want to hang out, I don’t want to go to your parties. I want to be left alone.
Hatcher: Well, the easiest way to say what you just said is “I’m here to do a job. You know, I’m not going to let anything happen to you, I’m not going to let you get hurt, if I can help it. And I expect the same from you.” Period. End of discussion, it’s not about Snapchatting and BS Instagram crap or all that stuff.
Brizendine: Yeah.
Hatcher: This is not about social media, this is about being a professional, okay.
Brizendine: Yeah.
Patton: And other than your job description, which I do not believe requires mandatory socialization‐
Hatcher: That’s correct.
Patton: ‐that can be addressed. Alright. Um so, I stepped out of the room and came back what you where we left off you were saying that many have tried to hint at getting with you. Um so, I have a list of names, I’m going to read names and you can just tell me yes or no. Okay? Um, McKenna.
Brizendine: Oh, Sergeant, no, no.
Patton: Okay. Bill Timson, Sergeant Timson.
Brizendine: No.
Patton: Daniel Bean.
Brizendine: No.
Patton: Cohea.
Brizendine: No.
Patton: Duenez.
Brizendine: No.
Patton: Dutton.
Brizendine: Uh‐uh.
Patton: Dwyer.
Brizendine: Yeah, he’s tried.
Patton: Joyner.
Brizendine: No.
Patton: Um, do I need to read any female names?
Brizendine: No, I mean, other than that one time Meagan tried, other than that, no.
Patton: Okay. Chris Irwin.
Brizendine: Irwin, uh, no.
Patton: Christian Miller.
Brizendine: No.
Patton: Rose.
Brizendine: No.
Patton: Womack.
Brizendine: No.
Patton: Uh, Sergeant Hayes.
Brizendine: No.
Patton: Sergeant Staats.
Brizendine: No.
Patton: Uh, Sal.
Brizendine: No.
Patton: Kyler Cline.
Brizendine: Uh‐uh.
Patton: Kash Cross.
Brizendine: No.
Patton: Um, Kern. Greg Kern.
Brizendine: No.
Patton: Liedtke.
Brizendine: [inaudible]
Patton: Magliocco.
Brizendine: Yeah.
Patton: Nickalai Powell.
Brizendine: No.
Patton: Rhea, Matt Rhea. He’s brand new.
Brizendine: No, I don’t even know who that is.
Patton: Saing, Danny Saing.
Brizendine: Nah. We were going to go hang out but I don’t think it was anything nefarious.
Patton: Okay. Schoeberl.
Brizendine: No.
Patton: Um, Joe Timson.
Brizendine: No.
Patton: And then we’re on your shift.
Brizendine: No, there’s nobody on my shift.
Patton: Okay. So, two men you said yes to.
Brizendine: Yeah.
Hatcher: As far as just‐
Brizendine: Patrol Officer level.
Patton: Okay. So, next page. Keep being honest, okay. Um, Chief.
Brizendine: No.
Patton: Deputy Chief.
Brizendine: No.
Patton: Captain Kaul.
Brizendine: No.
Patton: Lieutenant Campbell.
Brizendine: No.
Patton: Sergeant Eubank.
Brizendine: No.
Patton: Lieutenant Durham.
Brizendine: No.
Patton: Crotts.
Brizendine: I don’t know who that is.
Patton: Fracker.
Brizendine: No.
Patton: McCoy.
Brizendine: No.
Patton: Nokes.
Brizendine: Uh‐uh.
Patton: Shields.
Brizendine: Yeah.
Patton: Travis Wilson.
Brizendine: I don’t know who that is.
Patton: Juan Lugo.
Brizendine: No, he’s just a vulgar dude.
Patton: He’s a vulgar dude?
Brizendine: Yeah, he kind of just like he talks about stuff that probably shouldn’t be talked about.
Patton: Okay. Sergeant Powell.
Brizendine: Yeah.
Patton: We talked about that. Darby.
Brizendine: No.
Patton: Officer Darby‐Fesmire.
Brizendine: No.
Patton: Larry Holladay.
Brizendine: No. Me‐me and Fes like we’ve talked and I think that he wants to and I don’t say nothing. I’m just like no.
Patton: But you don’t put him in the same category of guys who have tried?
Brizendine: I don’t know, I mean you can interpret it that way but I don’t think so.
Patton: Okay. How about Larry Holladay?
Brizendine: No, we just talk, he’s a good friend he’s one of the few people that I go to for stuff. He’s pretty trustworthy.
Patton: Ty McGowan.
Brizendine: I don’t know, I don’t know if you would say yes or no. He was always like just Ty, if that makes sense. Like, he never did anything other than that one night where he made me feel uncomfortable, I guess. That’s just like, lack of a better phrase, just to make me feel uncomfortable just because I wasn’t able to‐at that point, like I’m not a drinker so, at that point I was just kind of like “I’m ready to leave.” But other than just describing him as Ty, I mean, I wouldn’t say yes, I guess. But like from an outside‐like if you were to be around being HR, you would be like “Yeah, that’s probably trying.” But he never was just like directly like “Hey, do you want to do this?” Or anything like that, so.
Hatcher: So, without putting words in your mouth just the way you say “Just being Ty.” Extremely overfriendly?
Brizendine: Yeah.
Hatcher: Flirtatious?
Brizendine: Yeah, just flirtatious. Which I mean, I don’t chalk it up to anything bad because I mean, that’s just some people’s personality. And he was always like you know “Hey, if I say something or you don’t like that I do something, just let me know.” Like he was always pretty courteous about being himself, if that makes sense.
Patton: How did he end up at this party at Meagan’s house with two candidates that he was helping to oversee their process to getting hired?
Brizendine: He‐he was training us.
Patton: He was training you.
Brizendine: Yeah.
Patton: Seems like a potentially conflict of interest to be at a party like that with nudity and pressure when you’re talking about people that you’re trying to get hired. Do you see it that way or no?
Brizendine: Yeah, for his position, yeah. If it was me I wouldn’t do that. But that’s just‐that’s just me. Like if I worked here and like I you know, one of the things I was telling Chief, I was like “I want to, I want to be the next person to teach like to train people how to shoot.” So, the next firearms instructor uh, I was like, I want to do that. If that was me, would I go hang out with those people after work? Uh‐uh, probably not. Now if we like just got off the range, still in uniform, still on duty, like would I go grab lunch and just be like “Hey, you know, what do you think about it?” Like Dwyer, you know when we first started he did the same thing, he was like “Hey, you know, if you need anything” [inaudible] then yeah, but.
Patton: I think it would not be disputable that having a lunch after a range in uniform and playing strip
Uno are very different things.
Brizendine: Yeah, correct. Yeah. So, I mean, like I said, I wouldn’t do it but.
Patton: Okay. (redacted under cover).
Brizendine: No.
Patton: (redacted under cover)
Brizendine: No.
Patton: (redacted under cover).
Brizendine: Uh‐uh.
Patton: What name have I not said to you that is still‐
Brizendine: I don’t think there’s any‐
Patton: ‐on your mind.
Brizendine: ‐I don’t think there’s anything, I think you did all of them.
Patton: That’s all of them, okay. And Powell is the only that’s sent you any kind of nude picture?
Brizendine: Yeah, I think so. The only one that sent it, yeah.
Patton: And your answer is still that you didn’t engage in any kind of sexual activity of any kind.
Brizendine: Uh‐uh.
Patton: Any kind.
Brizendine: Uh‐uh.
Patton: Are you aware of sexual activity that has taken place while on duty?
Brizendine: No, sure haven’t.
Patton: Does it surprise you?
Brizendine: No, not at all. Not at all. It’s just guys. Guys will be guys, guys always do that, guys don’t care. Their id is not developed, that’s just how it is. That’s always been my experience. Even at UPS it was the same way. Like, slowly this always happens and that’s where I learned my lesson at UPS. Was I made a mistake and I never got caught but I you know, I went to my husband and was like “Hey, this is what I did. I fucked up. I apologize. How can I make it better?” He gave me an opportunity, I said “Okay, well I’m not going to make that mistake again.” So, yeah. No, it doesn’t surprise me at all.
Patton: Okay. Is there anything that you have knowledge about that’s in the realm at all of the topic we’ve talked about that I’ve not asked you about? Like we’ve talked about this investigation, we’ve talked about men, we’ve talked about concerns with Howell, we’ve talked about nude photos and all of that, names. Is there anything that you are like “This is pretty much why I’m coming in for a meeting today.” That I have asked you about?
Brizendine: Why I would be‐like you mean‐
Patton: Like when you were called in today did you know why?
Brizendine: No.
Patton: No. Is there anything about the topics that I’ve asked you about that you have said? Is there any other information that you have that you haven’t shared?
Brizendine: No. I mean, like if you mean like, do I know why I’m here? No, other than that one thing about Ty and Meagan and all that at that party. Which like I said, I mean, that happened like over a year two‐ two years ago now? Over two years ago.
Patton: Okay. Do you have any knowledge of a girls gone wild hot tub party?
Brizendine: No, no, I do not.
Patton: Okay.
Brizendine: The only thing I can think of is like uh, I know Meagan was really mad at me, I don’t know what about and she sent me like a pretty nasty message and I screenshotted it and sent it to Chief.
Hatcher: How long ago was that?
Brizendine: 11/22.
Patton: Of?
Brizendine: 22.
Hatcher: So, November 22nd.
Brizendine: Yeah.
Patton: Are you willing to share that with me?
Brizendine: Yeah, sure. That’s fine. Meagan…no, that’s Mag, Meagan. There we go. I just screenshotted it and sent it to Chief. I was like “What do I say?” and he was like “Ignore it.” I had already responded. That was her apology.
Patton: Is she the gray and you’re the blue?
Brizendine: Yeah.
Patton: Okay.
Brizendine: I don’t talk to her. After she got mad at me, we had a case together, 86‐Alpha off of New Paul and she pretended like nothing happened and I was like “that’s really weird.” So, I think it was the next day or that day that she apologized and I don’t know if someone told her to apologize or what.
Patton: So, what happened on October 26th that?
Brizendine: That’s what I’m saying, I have no clue, she just does that. She just out of nowhere freaks out and like will send a message like that and I haven’t talked to her, like you can scroll through all of our messages. I‐from‐it’s all the way from the first day I ever met that girl. You can scroll all the way through. I have never done anything mean to her, I’ve never said anything mean to her, I’ve always been respectful. I don’t know what her deal is, she just like randomly sends me stuff like that. And anything I have to say about somebody, I will say it to their face and I told her that. I think I even let‐you‐you read it on the time we had the other investigation. Just no indicators, nothing, completely okay. And I’m sure there’s still messages from when she was like “Hey, are you okay? Did you get dropped off?” Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And she‐I don’t know. She just gets randomly mad, like bipolar mad and I never said anything about her other than she keeps wrecking every car. She got mad about that.
Hatcher: Well, maybe that’s what she’s talking about.
Brizendine: Well, because the State Trooper that worked the wreck was one of my best friends and he texted me and he was like “Hey, she was definitely at fault, I put her at fault.” So, I don’t know. I don’t know if she heard me say that or what.
Patton: Okay.
Brizendine: But other than that that’s the only thing I can think of other than like, if anyone ever was to bring up my name, and guys would be like “No, she won’t do anything.” You can ask anyone in the department because I tell everyone, I’m not doing anything with anyone, I don’t, I would never date a Police Officer, would never be in a relationship with a Police Officer. No way. No chance, you can ask anyone about that.
Patton: Okay. Um, here’s‐here’s the kind of guidance as we leave today. Um, first uh everything we talked about today um is confidential while the investigation is open, okay?
Brizendine: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: So, the only people that know about our conversation are the three of us sitting in this room, okay. Once the investigation closes then obviously, like anything else in a Municipality, it’s open for public record request, okay. Number two, I’m really dead serious about the retaliation thing, so if you feel it on anything we’ve talked about or your third shift issue, um, you need to come tell me. You need to text me, you need to tell Chief, you need to tell Deputy Chief, you need to tell Captain, you need to bust through the chain of command be like “We have a problem.” And it’s okay, to do that, okay. I’ve heard Chief say at the All Hands meeting, like blow up chain of command and go straight to Andrew if that’s what you need to do, okay. It doesn’t make a difference.
Brizendine: Yeah.
Hatcher: We’ll deal with the other parts of it later.
Patton: Yep. Um, and then if you moving forward from this day on, if you feel like any member of the LaVergne Police Department or any employee in the City of LaVergne is pressuring you in any form or fashion, verbally, over text, Snapchat, Facebook message, Instagram chat, whatever the latest app would be that particular day to pressure you sexually, I need you to tell me. Because this behavior creates a hostile work environment. Um, I hear it, I see it, like a lot of that reaction that you gave talking about third shift to me, that’s a hostile work environment, alright. And that’s what we need to correct. And it takes time and it takes brave people like yourself to sit at a table and talk about it. Um, so, I give you credit for that. I know that’s not easy. If it were easy, you would have done it the night it happened, it’s hard, that’s why you don’t want to deal with it. But by not dealing with it, it sets you up for more and it sets the next female up for more and so, we need to stop that pattern.
Brizendine: And like, I tried to bring that up, I was like “Do you not see an issue with you being here for 15 years, and there’s not another female, with the exception of Sergeant Sheree, that has been with the department? Do you not understand that there’s a turnover rate for females? Like, there’s a reason. And it’s not the job.” The job’s not necessarily easy, but it’s not that hard. It’s really not, follow the law, do the policy and procedures, do your job. It’s not that hard. Even the people out here, they’re not really that mean to us. Yeah, they’ll run their mouth, no big deal, keep being respectful. I’ve never had an issue out of a person, ever. I only have issues out of people that are in uniform and like, it just sucks. There are days when I’m like “I don’t want to go to work.”
Patton: Do you need to change shifts?
Hatcher: We’re already in the process.
Patton: Okay, thank you. So, again, a disadvantage that DC has, him not being in the room, there’s been a couple of times where Chief has made comments like that, right. What do we need to do right now? Um, and then secondly um, like we need to harness her experience and understand why females have a hard time here.
Hatcher: Well, and I’m‐I’m not going to speak out of turn, but when you discuss that there’s a high turnover rate for females here, um, I’m not really sure that I can‐that I can jump on that one. We haven’t had too many females that have come and gone either getting fired other than Jackie Bauer, she was here for several years, made it all the way through detective. Jerri‐Lynn Champion, all the way up to Corporal Detective. Um, so, Felicia Altheide would still be here if she didn’t get injured in a car wreck. So, I’m not sure where the‐where the female turnover is.
Brizendine: I mean, you don’t like if you see the pictures and stuff, there’s‐there’s just no females. There’s all the Olivia, all that stuff when I first got hired on‐
Hatcher: Well that was another situation.
Brizendine: Situation. Yeah, I heard about that too.
Hatcher: Right. So, there’s usually something that ends up coming behind it.
Brizendine: Right.
Hatcher: And there are‐there have been a few that have been here over the years that didn’t cut it.
Brizendine: Right.
Hatcher: It wasn’t because they were being hit on it was because they didn’t do the job the way that they were supposed to.
Brizendine: Well, and that’s what I mean is like, there’s very little guidance for females without there being some type of nefarious motive, I guess you could say.
Hatcher: Okay.
Brizendine: Like if someone offers me help, I’m like why? Why are you helping me? Why are you talking to me?
Patton: Well that goes to a core of distrust.
Brizendine: Yeah.
Patton: So, this is the second Officer who has mentioned this concern and I think for us it’s just something that we say “Okay, we need to figure out who can help us understand what it is like for you. And then how do we put actual facts behind that, and then what does change look like?”
Brizendine: Well like, my thing is, I don’t ever want to be like “Oh, it’s because I’m a female.” I just‐I just can tell.
Patton: Yeah.
Brizendine: Like, tell me not to pull someone out of the car but then watching everyone else do it, now you’re saying something to me. That Officer’s 80 pounds overweight and has not ever taken a class of jiujitsu, martial arts, anything like that. And you trust him more than me? I’m actively trying, I’m actively investing in myself. And they’re not but you have confidence in them. What’s the reason? It’s simply because they’re a male.
Patton: I hear what you’re saying.
Brizendine: Like I’m getting threatened to get written up and he even told me, he was like “The next time is going to be a week off.” It’s not fair.
Hatcher: Well, I’ll tell you one thing, it’s not his decision to make.
Patton: I was just thinking that. He doesn’t set those guidelines.
Brizendine: Well, he said he did last time.
Hatcher: He recommends based on the egregiousness of the action whether to support it or deny it, okay. Now, with yours unfortunately, you had two episodes of the same thing, okay.
Brizendine: Yeah.
Hatcher: So, that fell to‐
Brizendine: But with him saying it’s not a big deal and then turning around like “Well I’m the one that recommended you to get a day off suspension.” Like, do you understand like how that makes me go retaliation because it was after he got in trouble? Because of me. So, I just feel like one week you said it’s not that big of a deal, then we went and talked about something like you and me and then after that he was like “Well I gave you the day off.” So.
Hatcher: Yeah, well, okay. I’m not going to‐I’m not going to really get more into this until I talk to the people that I need to talk to that can get this situated.
Patton: I’m grateful that you said something.
Hatcher: Yeah, I’m not going to, and you know, like I told you when Andrew left the room, I’m not going to sugar coat things, and I’m not going to sweep shit under the rug. And if that’s the way you think, and you have that much distrust in your administration, then you might need to second check yourself as well, okay? I’m not here for that. Okay, you’re here, utmost you’re an Officer first. Okay? You’re a female second. You understand?
Brizendine: Mm‐hmm.
Hatcher: Okay. You’re representation is of an Officer first and foremost, I don’t care about your gender, if you can do the job, you can do the job. Okay? But you’re going to have to get up here a little bit that not everybody feels the same way that you feel, okay. Nobody’s out to get you, okay. The fact that your supervision has got some issues, that’s my‐that’s my problem, okay. But you can’t go through life especially in this kind of job, okay. And it’s not about the alienation just like we talked about, it doesn’t mean that you have to stop talking to people, okay. It doesn’t mean you have to cut up with them, doesn’t mean that you’ve got to be a social butterfly, alright. Just let them know you’re present.
Brizendine: Yeah.
Hatcher: You understand? Engage in quality conversations if there’s something that you can put quality into, alright?
Brizendine: Mm‐hmm.
Hatcher: Leave it at that. Don’t leave it into the social thing about how about them Dodgers, you know kind of crap, right.
Brizendine: Yeah.
Hatcher: That’s not what this is about, okay. You maintain professionalism first, right. You structure yourself around that. But here’s what I’ll tell you, okay, and I say this to‐cause you’re about the same as my youngest, okay, how you speak to people, okay, reflects on how they will speak to you, okay. You gotta remember that, okay. For what you give, you will get. Does that make sense?
Brizendine: Mm‐hmm.
Hatcher: Okay. You can be blunt all you want to, just don’t be surprised when you get it back
Brizendine: Mm‐hmm.
Hatcher: So, be‐be very very careful about how you speak, I’m not talking about eggshells, okay, but choose your words wisely. You know, if you’re walking into a conversation and you just look at somebody “That’s fucking stupid.” Okay. You’re not going to get a warm reception, okay. So, keep that in mind. Alright, and I’m not telling you how to speak, you’re a grown woman, you can speak however you want to, but just understand what I said is the caveat to that. Okay? That’s not maintaining professionalism, that’s just throwing and integrating your opinion into things and sometimes your opinion isn’t necessarily what needs to be. Does that make sense?
Brizendine: Mm‐hmm.
Hatcher: Okay. And that’s just for your own cations, that’s not for anything else but that just means that again, don’t alienate yourself just because you think that everybody is untrustworthy. Okay. Because I gotta ask you, if that’s the case, then why are you here?
Brizendine: Because I want to be a Police Officer.
Hatcher: Okay. So, are you telling me that you don’t trust the people that you work with? That you wouldn’t go to battle with any of these people?
Brizendine: Yeah, I would go to battle, I’m always going to take a bullet and I’m always going to do my job. I‐I can’t say that I would trust anyone really past 50%. You know, because I hear the way they talk, I see what they do, I see their mannerism, I see how they are, I see their integrity level. The people that I work with, not necessarily. Chang, I trust Chang. That’s really about it.
Patton: One thing I’ll just say to tag off what you were just talking about with talking to each other, sexual harassment is never tolerated, I don’t care who it’s coming from, what the tone, [inaudible] is, it’s not allowed.
Hatcher: Nope.
Patton: So, I’m your outlet for that. Um, at any point, okay? Any questions for me?
Brizendine: So, I mean, I don’t know how to phrase the question, but I guess like, what was the point of me being a part of the investigation, if that makes sense? I don’t know how to ask the question, you get what I’m saying?
Patton: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you’re here because your name came up while I was talking to other people as someone who was potentially having sexual activity with other Officers and I needed to ask you if that was happening or not.
Brizendine: Oh, like if I knew about it?
Patton: If you participated in it‐
Hatcher: Or if you participated in it‐
Brizendine: Oh, no. Okay.
Patton: That’s why you were‐that’s why I asked to talk with you.
Brizendine: Am I in trouble?
Patton: No.
Hatcher: No.
Patton: No.
Brizendine: Oh.
Hatcher: Not if you didn’t do anything wrong.
Brizendine: No. So, like from this day forward am I allowed to talk to those people or no? Like is it best for me not to speak to them?
Patton: You don’t have any restrictions on my end, my only restrictions would be I don’t want you to talk about why you were here today or this investigation.
Brizendine: Oh.
Patton: But other than that.
Hatcher: Which is standard for any internal affairs investigation, you don’t talk about those to anybody.
Brizendine: Oh.
Patton: Yeah but no, you can talk to anybody you want to.
Brizendine: Okay. That was really all the questions.
Patton: Okay. So, thank you for coming in on your day off, hopefully we haven’t completely ruined it. Make sure you‐
Hatcher: Timecard.
Patton: ‐put your two hours down for comp time, or paid time, whatever it is you want to do.
Brizendine: What do I write on there?
Patton: Just put‐
Hatcher: Meeting with HR.
Patton: Yeah, meeting with HR.
Brizendine: Okay.
Patton: Yep, and you can write it, if you want to put it in your comp bank or if you want to have it paid, just notate what you want on there.
Brizendine: Okay.
Patton: Alright.
Hatcher: Any other questions?
Brizendine: Like, when will this be talked about with third shift if that makes sense?
Patton: The concerns that you shared about third shift? I think DC’s going to have to handle that and look into those issues and I’m sure he’ll circle back at some point with you.
Hatcher: Thank you, Jim.
Patton: You’re welcome.
Hatcher: Um so, it’s going to be very very quick. And the reason I say that is because I go out on the 10th and I won’t be back for probably two and half, three months. Okay. So, um, I’ll be getting with the people that I need to get with to get this thing pretty expeditiously. Okay? Um, and then we’re going to work on getting you transferred, okay?
Brizendine: Okay. I just kind of like want‐if you said the 10th, I mean, I’m just going to lay low for the next week because I don’t want to give him any reason to like‐
Hatcher: No, you go out and do your job. You go out and do your job. Keep in mind the things that he has talked to you about, okay. If you can justify the necessity for pulling somebody from the vehicle other than just because they were slow rolling and I want to get them out of the car because, right, you want to separate from the car for what specific reason is the first thing I’m going to ask you.
Brizendine: For mind, I would do it on DUIs to make sure the odor of alcohol is with them, not the vehicle. For two, I can start observing other things like odor of alcohol, glassy eyes, are they swaying, do they need support? You know, making sure that I can clear them off of the vehicle, that there’s no weapons on them, that they can’t you know, reoperate the motor vehicle. Because it’s really about the only time I ever pull someone out of the car before I have backup is my DUIs, I always do it.
Hatcher: Two different things, and I’m going to tell you this from years and years of training‐
Patton: I’m just going to stop the recording because we’re‐we’re done with the investigation.
Hatcher: Yep.
Share
Patton: Um, thanks for coming in. I am uh deep into an investigation into some behavior on second shift. So, wanted to talk with you today just to um see what information that you might have that you can share um that would help with some confirmation. Um, a couple of things, one, you’ve been an Officer long enough to know when we do investigations right, like you know, you have this information and then my job is to sort of gather other pieces and find those points of connection and say “okay, that goes together.”
Staats: Yep.
Patton: Um so, that’s‐we wanted to ask you some questions about that. Before I dive into my questions, I know Chief has a document he wanted you to sign or look at.
Staats: Yep. I’m familiar with it.
Patton: Okay.
Davis: It’s the bottom line, I believe.
Staats: I don’t‐I’m familiar with Garrity.
Patton: Okay. Um, Eric um, right off the bat, because I know that these conversations can be‐can be stressful for people, I don’t want to assign that they are for you or not, but they can be. Do you have any idea what I’m working on?
Staats: I have no clue.
Patton: Okay. No one has said anything to you?
Staats: No.
Patton: Okay. That’s actually a good thing.
Staats: Um, because IDavis:
He thought it was yeah, he thought‐
Staats: ‐I thought he was starting up those Chief meetings.
Patton: Yep.
Staats: So, I ask him since we‐he was in his office and I was not tied up and he said no, I’m meeting with you guys. But he said I wasn’t getting fired, so.
Patton: That’s correct.
Staats: Okay. Now that, I don’t know.
Patton: That’s correct and I will say this to you as well, the vast majority of the things that I want to talk with you about, do not include you.
Staats: Well that’s good because I can’t think of anything I’ve done wrong other that what‐
Davis: When he goes into it, you’ll learn.
Staats: Oh, okay.
Patton: So, let me start, I’m going to start broad and I’m going to ask you some questions that may seem vague.
Staats: Okay.
Patton: That’s intentional, right? Because I want to learn what you‐I don’t want to add information to you that you don’t know about, I’m just looking for things that you can help give me confirmation on. Also, there will be times where I won’t use names of people, if you know who I’m talking about I would like for you to use those names so that again, I can use that as confirmation of information I already have. Okay?
Staats: Okay.
Patton: So, you’ve been over second shift, how long?
Staats: Oh, um, since 2016 or 2017?
Patton: Okay. What words would you use to describe the culture of second shift. The Officers, professionally and personally.
Staats: Uh, well we have a young group, so.
Patton: Okay.
Staats: They’re still learning and trying to get their footing on their job, then working with each other, then dealing with their own personality conflicts that sometimes are pros, sometimes are cons and off duty, I’m not sure, I used to, when I first became the Sergeant on second shift, I would hang out with the guys more, like having little part‐get togethers.
Patton: Okay.
Staats: But Captain Kaul had spoke to me and said that you know, there needs to be a clear and defined separation between you and your people, and I’m not saying you’re doing anything wrong but, it’s going to keep you from.
Patton: Yeah.
Staats: So, because of that I stopped inviting them over for big parties. Every so often, I’ll invite them, like I’ve invited all the guys if they want to come out to the lake, we have a big house boat, we go out on the lake, we have knee‐boarding and stuff like that. But beyond that I really don’t see them outside of work other than maybe grabbing lunch.
Davis: What‐you said, inviting them out to the lake, just the lake [inaudible] you all have property out there?
Staats: Yeah, I have a six‐bedroom house boat.
Patton: Oh, wow.
Staats: And a‐a runabout boat. So, we sometimes take the big boat out, other times we’ll take the small boat out or take them both out.
Patton: Okay.
Staats: But you know, various people from work like Kristine has a girl’s weekend out there where her and a bunch of girls from work and some of her friends will go out there for the entire weekend and just chill out.
Patton: Okay. When did Captain Kaul have that conversation with you?
Staats: I’d say 2020ish.
Patton: Okay. So, a long time ago.
Staats: Yes.
Patton: Not something recent, new‐new rule.
Staats: No, no, no, no.
Patton: Okay, okay.
Staats: We‐
Patton: Go ahead.
Staats: He just uh, it was not really an issue, nothing happened that I’m aware of.
Patton: Right, right.
Staats: He just said that you know, when you’re off duty, I’m not saying that you can’t hang out with them, just watch what you do.
Patton: Yeah.
Staats: Because you have to maintain separation.
Patton: Exactly. So, while we’re on that topic is a good opportunity for me to say, what any employee does in their off time, to use Police language, off duty, right. That’s not my concern.
Staats: Yeah.
Patton: That doesn’t‐that doesn’t hit my radar.
Staats: Yeah.
Patton: When it hits my radar it’s because what’s happened off duty now is affecting what happens on duty, right.Patton: So, when that happens then‐then we get...
Staats: And I never had that, I...
Patton: Yeah, yeah, so, then we get involved. But what happens, you know, a girls weekend on the boat, I’ve got‐I’ve got no interest in that, right?
Staats: Yeah.
Patton: Because that’s not‐that’s not what I’m here to do. Um, just for clarity. Um so, let’s get back to talking about on shift stuff. Um, what information, if any, do you have about intimate sexual relationships between Officers on second shift?
Staats: I have none. I know that there was a previous between two Officers, which we did an investigation, and we were told oh, we don’t know anything and then low and behold, after both of them were gone we were told it was true. But no one told us when we were trying to investigate it on second shift.
Patton: Was that like 2018?
Staats: It was 2020?
Patton: Okay.
Davis: Yeah, that was Hernandez and Oliver.
Patton: Okay.
Staats: Yeah.
Patton: Okay. So, what about present day?
Staats: No.
Patton: No information that you have personally?
Staats: No.
Patton: Any rumors that you’ve heard about?
Staats: I’ve not heard any.
Patton: Okay.
Staats: I know that when Hall went out for her medical stuff‐
Patton: Okay.
Staats: ‐what she’s on, I don’t know, um, because Magliocco had called and said “hey, the guys on shift have noticed she’s acting different, her quality of work’s diminished, is everything okay with her?” I’m like, “I’m not sure, I haven’t seen her.”
Patton: Okay.
Staats: So, I talked to Captain Kaul and he says “I’m aware of what’s going on, blah, blah, blah. Find out if there’s‐ they know that I’m in contact, and that she’s safe.”
Patton: Okay.
Staats: But then he also asked, he said, “Do you think that there’s any sexual relations with her and anybody else?” I said, “I don’t think so.” The guys just see her as one of the guys but I said, “I’ll ask Mags when I talk to him.” And he said he didn’t think that there was anything sexual going on, him and his wife hang out with her and her husband but uh, on that.
Patton: Okay. So, I’m going to‐I’m going to pick that whole thing apart, okay? Because there’s pieces that I’d like some clarity on. So, let’s back it up to when‐when did Magliocco call you to share concerns about Meagan’s mental health? What day was it?
Staats: Let me see which phone it’s on, because I got a text. Might take a minute. Uh, December 8th.
Patton: Okay, and I think that‐
Davis: Was that a text or a call?
Staats: A text.
Patton: Okay and December 8th was a Thursday.
Staats: Yes.
Patton: What did he text you? Thank you. December 8th, um he says “hey” you say “hey” he says “how are you feeling?” “better, been in bed most of the day.” “dang, you’ve been sick the last couple of weeks. So, I’ve been noticing something about one of my shift mates and a couple of us have tried to help at our level but I’m genuinely concerned for this person now and wanted to call you quick and at least put it out there. Because I don’t know if something will happen or not.” So, that was on the 8th at 22:58 and you say “Sure, call me.” Right?
Staats: Yes, sir.
Patton: Okay. So, tell me about the phone call that you guys had.
Staats: Uh, he said that him and the guys on shift have noticed that Maegan has been‐her quality of work’s been down, she’s been more agitated with people, the community, stuff like that, they just said it’s out of character for her, she’s been doing so well, they don’t know what’s going on and that’s where that came from.
Patton: Okay.
Staats: So, I had no clue because I’ve been out, I had the procedure on my hip plus I got some type of upper respiratory infection. So, I was out the last, it was from the beginning of Dec‐or end of November. November 28th, I had the procedure, I only came back from the Christmas Parade and then I was out for that following week, I came back on that following Saturday, so.
Patton: Okay. Um, did Magliocco, when he was speaking to you, obviously the texts talks about his concern that something might happen.
Staats: Yeah.
Patton: What he says, did he express to you that he was concerned about suicide?
Staats: Uh, when I uh‐because I didn’t know what was going on, I thought Meagan, I didn’t even know she was even out at that point, spoke to uh Lieutenant and Sergeant Hayes, or Captain and Sergeant Hayes, and when we spoke he’s like “There’s a medical thing, you know but tell the guys she’s safe, it’s okay, but find out if there’s anything that’s going on with anybody at work.”
Patton: Yeah, I get that. I want to go back to the conversation between you and Patrick.
Staats: Yes.
Patton: Did he say that she was suicidal to you?
Staats: I’m getting to that.
Patton: Okay.
Staats: Because the‐when I came back and met with him and told him she’s okay, that’s when I ask him if there’s anything.
Patton: Okay.
Staats: And it was at the station, in the break room.
Patton: Okay. So, on the initial phone call, you’re saying he didn’t say anything to you about being suicidal.
Staats: I don’t‐I can’t remember if he did or didn’t.
Patton: Okay.
Staats: But I know we did discuss it here at the station because he said she had‐something about cutting herself.
Patton: Okay.
Staats: And I’m like “why didn’t you tell us earlier?” but I don’t remember if he told me when we were on the call because literally, he woke me up.
Patton: Okay.
Staats: So, trying to remember all that is‐ Davis: So, the telephone call, you wasn’t here. You was off.
Staats: Yeah, that‐
Davis: Okay.
Staats: ‐when he texted me, I called him, we talked because my phone woke me up.
Davis: Okay.
Staats: And then when I talked to Bob and Konrad, I followed back up with‐
Davis: Still off.
Staats: No, I was on duty.
Davis: Okay.
Staats: Because I was here the next day, I think.
Davis: Okay.
Staats: I met with Mags and talked to him about the concerns.
Davis: Okay.
Staats: Because he said she had been drinking, wanted to uh something about there’s‐there’s like a group to hang out on a certain day, sometimes outside of work and then there are other times with him and his wife and her and her husband, they hang out. Her husband went to THP so, she’s been a little down because of that, that’s what he thought it was about initially, but she’s been drinking heavily and something about he‐she came over while they were decorating the Christmas tree, she got a call from her husband or something like that and left. So, that’s all I remember in our conversation as far as that stuff.
Patton: Okay. The thing that I‐I’m sorry if you feel like I’m stuck on a point, right‐
Staats: If you tell me exactly the point, I‐I‐I can hone it in.
Patton: Yeah, yeah, the thing that‐that is a behavioral concern would be if you as a Sergeant had information that another Officer brought you that‐that another Officer was suicidal and did nothing with that, that would be obviously very troublesome.
Staats: Yes, but from what I understand she‐by the time I spoke to Magliocco, I guess she was already in the hospital because I asked him like “well was she there today?” he’s like “no, she called out sick today and she said she’s going to be out sick tomorrow.” I’m like, “okay” so, I assumed that’s around the same time because when I spoke to Konrad he was like “She may‐“
Patton: Did‐did you talk to Konrad on Thursday night, like after you talked with Mag?
Staats: I think it was Friday.
Patton: Okay. So, after you talked with Mag you didn’t have‐you didn’t take any steps at that point?
Staats: Uh, well no, I probably would have, let me see, let me go back to the 8th, uh, hold on. I sent a text to Konrad and Bob and said “Is there something going on with Hall?” He didn’t tell me about the cutting until I met in person.
Patton: Okay.
Staats: He didn’t tell me anything about that.
Patton: Okay.
Staats: He just told me he was worried about her because her‐on the phone call her behavior, her interaction with the public and all that‐
Patton: Okay.
Staats: ‐we’ve all noticed.
Patton: Okay.
Staats: When I met with him at the station‐
Patton: On Friday?
Staats: Yeah, I guess the very next day is when‐
Patton: Okay.
Staats: ‐is when that he said that she had done this.
Patton: Okay. So, you‐you texted Bob and who else?
Davis: Konrad.
Staats: Konrad.
Patton: Konrad.
Staats: I would have either call him or spoke to him‐
Patton: Okay, okay.
Staats: ‐but I made him aware.
Patton: Okay, okay. Um, so, on Friday then, Captain Kaul has this conversation with you about “can you see if there’s anything going on?” Did you find that‐how‐how did you find that question?
Staats: Well, because we had had a similar incident with Hernandez and Olivia where it was causing an issue with the guys on the shift.
Patton: Yep.
Staats: Where we‐we asked all the guys and of course none of them want to tell us and rat out their shift mates but I’m like “you can’t complain about a problem and then tell me you know nothing about a problem so we can deal with it.” I’m like, “what they do on their own time is none of my business.” But if it affects work, it’s my business. That‐he can tell you, that was a whole shit show.
Patton: Mm‐hmm. So, how did the qu‐how did the question hit you?
Staats: Well he’s like well‐I asked him, he said, “do you think there’s anything going on with her and any of the guys sexually?” I’m like, “I don’t think so.” He’s like, “Well, we didn’t think so with Emilio.”
Patton: Okay. So, it was couched in that previous investigation.
Staats: Yeah, he’s like “Well, we didn’t think something was going on there either”
Patton: Okay.
Staats: And it turned out that there was, so.
Patton: So, you meet with‐with Patrick on Friday. You have this follow‐up conversation, he tells you about the cutting, you ask him the question about “are you involved with Hall?”
Staats: I asked if there was anyone she’s messing with or‐there could have been anyone that there’s sexual‐he’s like “I don’t‐I don’t think so.”
Patton: Okay.
Staats: She’s married and you know we hang out as married couples.
Patton: Okay.
Staats: But she doesn’t‐he didn’t know of her having intimate relationships with anybody.
Patton: Do you have any information about Officers that are engaging in sexual activity while on duty inside City property?
Staats: No. I think if I knew about that I would have dealt with that already.
Patton: Um, do you have any information on what is described to me as a “girls gone wild” hot tub party?
Staats: No.
Patton: Okay. Have you ever been invited to or have you been at a party that had a hot tub?
Staats: Yeah, my boat.
Patton: On your boat.
Staats: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: Okay. Um, was there an incident that took place at one of those parties that you can remember that may be questionable?
Staats: Well, it was the last weekend of May of this year, we were celebrating my husband’s birthday, my son’s birthday, my birthday, our anniversary is in May.
Patton: Okay, okay.
Staats: Lieutenant Durham’s wife’s birthday is in May. So, we had a family like, and it was the same weekend as Memorial Day, so.
Patton: Okay.
Staats: We had a party out there.
Patton: Who attended?
Staats: Well, Durham, his family, his parents, my family. I told the guys on shift if they wanted to swing out there they could. PMag came out and Hall came out.
Patton: Okay. Was um there a lot of drinking on the boat as well?
Staats: Uh, there was drinking, yes.
Patton: Okay.
Staats: Mag‐Maegan got sloppy drunk.
Patton: Okay.
Staats: To the point where my husband’s like “she’s not allowed to be back here.”
Patton: Okay.
Staats: She was so drunk she almost fell off of the second story of the boat.
Patton: She fell down some stairs, right?
Staats: She did.
Patton: Yeah.
Staats: To the point where when they went out on the little boat I had to stay there so somebody could keep her from falling in the water and drowning.
Patton: Okay. So, from what I understand about that party, you and your husband and your kids, Durham and his family arrive on a Thursday or a Friday, something like that.
Staats: Yeah.
Patton: Then Saturday morning comes around and Hall’s on the boat.
Staats: Saturday afternoon.
Davis: Afternoon.
Patton: Okay. And she arrives by herself, correct?
Staats: Yes, she said her husband was at work.
Patton: Okay. And PMag shows up shortly after that?
Staats: I can’t remember which one got there first but PMag showed up, he brought his drone with him.
Patton: Okay.
Davis: He brought what?
Staats: A drone.
Patton: The information that I have is that‐that she shows up first.
Staats: And I don’t recall who showed up first.
Patton: Okay, okay. And PMag’s wife did not show up that day?
Staats: Yes, she did.
Patton: She did?
Staats: She wasn’t with him but‐because she had some friend in from out of town.
Patton: Okay.
Staats: So, she came down, hung out for a little bit and then left.
Patton: Okay. That was on that Saturday, not Sunday?
Staats: Uh, it was the same day he got there.
Patton: Okay. So, that night um the information that I have is that you and Patrick and David and Meagan were all in the hot tub together.
Staats: Yeah.
Patton: Okay, and Meagan’s top comes off.
Staats: I think her boob falls out or something like that.
Patton: Okay.
Staats: Because I remember telling her put it up and holding her strap‐“put your stuff back up.”
Patton: Okay. Would‐would this sentence be correct, as far as you would‐from‐if you were to say it? I was told her top comes off and you help her put it back on.
Staats: Yeah, I mean because I don’t remember exactly, it fell off, it came untied, I don’t remember but I know that out of all the guys there, I’m the safest person to help her with this because it’s not going to be misconstrued as anything sexual.
Patton: Okay.
Staats: Everybody knows I’m gay. So, me helping her with her top is strictly to help her.
Patton: Okay. So, all of that did happen?
Staats: Yeah.
Patton: Okay. Um, I’m also told that PMag was pouring vodka down her throat‐
Staats: I didn’t see that.
Patton: ‐while you were all in the hot tub and another person stopped him saying “hey, that’s enough.”
Staats: I don’t remember, I know I was up and down a lot from getting stuff down on the first floor.
Patton: Okay.
Staats: So, I don’t remember‐I don’t recall whether or not they were.
Patton: Okay. Do you take her to her room at that point, after that incident and tell her like “hey, time for bed, like you need to go to bed?”
Staats: I think once we got done her‐we‐left the hot tub, I think we went downstairs and started watching a movie.
Patton: Okay. Do you remember at any point in the night taking her to her room and telling her like “hey, this is it for you, like go to bed?”
Staats: I don’t remember if I told her to go to bed or if she went to bed but I know that I went to bed because I was tired, I was falling asleep watching the movie.
Patton: Okay. What do you recall about what the sleeping situation was that night?
Staats: My husband and I were in our room, my two kids were in their room, David’s kid was in the adjacent room, David and his wife‐yeah, David and his wife were in their room, I can’t remember if his little girl was with him or in my kids’ rooms, or if they were in his room. David’s daughter and her friend were in another room, I think Meagan slept in the room across and I think PMag slept on the couch.
Patton: Okay, and do you remember having a conversation or a comment with David about concerns that she and PMag went into the bathroom together?
Staats: Yeah, cause I didn’t drink anything Saturday. I was playing host so, I didn’t drink at all.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Staats: Um so, at one point I was looking for them and I couldn’t find either, I’m like, I told David I’m like, “I think they’re in the bathroom together.” He was like, “That’s not good.” I’m like, “No, they’re both married and that shit ain’t gonna happen here.” And then I saw Mags come out the far end bathroom [inaudible] in my bedroom, so, he wasn’t in there with her.
Patton: Okay.
Staats: So, that alleviated that. But I barely knew them at this point, just from a little bit at work. So, I didn’t know what‐I was trying to make sure nothing like that happened.
Patton: Okay, okay. Um, just thinking through details in my head.
Davis: Do you know if anybody went into her room that night?
Patton: Thank you.Staats: Uh, no because her room where she stayed is down the hall from mine and we close our door. So, I wouldn’t know.
Patton: You wouldn’t have any information. You would necessarily know it didn’t happen, you just don’t have any information.
Staats: I don’t have any information.
Patton: Got it.
Staats: Was there‐did‐was there something that was supposed to have happened on my boat?
Patton: Um‐
Staats: Sexual orientation put aside, right. Um, when you have in your work structure, when you as a supervisor are helping put a top back on somebody, I have some red flags that go up, right.
Patton: Well‐
Patton: Not from a, again not from an orientation perspective, just from a that puts you in a weird situation.
Davis: Supervisor, yeah.
Staats: Well I probably, regardless, because I don’t see it as sexual, any woman, the last thing I want is her stuff hanging out.
Patton: Right.
Staats: The kids were on our dock, there’s like other boats, other families.
Patton: Yeah.
Staats: That needs to get mitigated quick for her, as well as for everybody else around.
Patton: Yeah. Was that the only time that it happened?
Staats: I think so, but I’m like, I would have helped anybody do that.
Patton: Okay.
Staats: And it’s nothing‐for me it’s just a matter of, I would want somebody, say my mom, I would hope somebody would help her to‐
Patton: Was it more verbal or was it more physical? Like, did you say “Meagan, fix your top?”
Staats: Probably a little bit of both.
Patton: Okay.
Staats: I mean, I’m not grabbing her titty and shoving it back in, I’m probably telling her and holding like, her bra and helping her, but.
Patton: Okay, okay. Um‐
Staats: Trust me, the last thing I want to do is touch a titty. I get no interest in that.
Davis: Okay.
Patton: I understand.
Davis: I know [inaudible].
Patton: Understood. Um‐
Davis: [inaudible] Let me ask you this. Do you think um‐we‐we’ve had the talk with you, my staff, uh Konrad, Bob, we all was in my office, I think Hatcher was in the office, we kind of talked about the hang out thing and do you think it was a wise thing to do?
Staats: To hang out with them?
Davis: So, okay, I guess we’re saying not having parties or anything like that but, hindsight 20/20, if you knew any of that stuff was going to take place, would they have been out there on your boat?
Staats: No, and Meagan’s not allowed back on our boat.
Davis: So, one of the things that‐that I just want to talk to you Chief to Sergeant. Um, again, do whatever you want on‐on your time, that’s not the problem, the problem is some kind of way your house boat became a topic of conversation here at the department and certain things such as being inebriated, not you all but, maybe her being inebriated and PMag being there and possibly in the restroom, you know, and things like that it’s just all circling around.
Staats: Well, I don’t know who else would have known.
Davis: That‐that‐that’s why we’re here. That’s why we’re here and it makes it look like a déjà vu from the last situation because it was parties at your house and different things like that. Here we go, Eric Staats hosting a party and all this wild shit is happening, excuse my French, this happening at his house again and we hear that side of it but then when you come in and explain it “no, I’m trying to be a host. I don’t want to see her titty.” And things like that, but we don’t get that until there’s an open investigation going on on certain things in the department. Which you know, on my side when I hear it, dammit, Eric. Here we go again.
Staats: And‐and I prefaced, I’m like, this is going to be a family event, my kids, Durham’s kids, this is not a party, this is us getting together, cooking out, there’s drinks, going out on the boat. And I made it clear this is not a party per se, it’s us celebrating birthdays.
Davis: So, if I may ask, and you don’t have to answer if you don’t want to, how did that make you feel when you saw all of this extracurricular happening at this family event?
Staats: Uh‐
Davis: Or potential.
Staats: Well, PMag was fine. Meagan was sloppy. Brian and I discussed that and‐because I didn’t know she drank like that. And I’m like, we’ve discussed it, she’s not allowed back at any‐out at the boat, she obviously cannot control herself, she made a fool of herself and we don’t want people like that around our family. I like her, but she doesn’t need to be there with my kids acting like that.
Davis: 100%.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Staats: So, because of that you know, we’ve had like [inaudible] and his family come out and watch movies, eat. I’ve had other people from work, they just come out and we just hang out as families and friends. The way she acted was totally uncool.
Davis: And‐and I’m glad you said that because none of those other events or anything like that has come back to work. None of that stuff. Certain people come from the job, it comes back to work.Staats: See, and that was in May, so, I don’t‐if it was a‐I didn’t know anything about, the only thing about that was how sloppy she was and literally, I had to stay there and take care of her so she didn’t fall in the water and drown.
Davis: Well and‐and let me say this. This information didn’t get to HR by any member of the Police Department, that’s how far out this is within‐within the City.
Staats: And it’s all stemming from my‐my party?
Patton: No, it’s just one element. The party’s just one element.
Davis: It’s just one element but‐but if anybody‐
Patton: That’s‐that’s why I started‐said I’m going to ask you a bunch of stuff you are not involved in, okay? You are a leader in the department and you happen to be the leader of this shift who‐there are some significant problems.
Davis: Yes.
Staats: Is it stuff that I should know about?
Davis: Yes. It’s stuff that you should know about but you may not. That’s why we’re here.
Patton: Mm‐hmm. Like, there’s a‐there’s a shift that’s about to come and you’re going to have to manage the shift.
Davis: Yes.
Patton: And I don’t mean shift like‐
Davis: Not that you’re a part of the shift. When we say shift we’re not talking about‐
Patton: First, second, third shift.
Davis: ‐we’re talking about movement. Because uh what’s in this folder. And it doesn’t‐it doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with you but‐
Staats: Have I done something wrong?
Davis: No.
Patton: No.
Davis: You, Bob, Konrad, being the leaders of the shift um probably should have known about some of it. Um, a lot of it y’all may not have known about it but I will say that like Konrad said, there needs to be more separation.
Staats: Yeah.
Davis: Between supervisors and Officers. It really needs to be separation between supervisors and Officers. Now, if you have a Christmas party and invite your whole shift and only certain people come, that’s one thing. But sometimes‐
Staats: Well, I
Davis: Let me just say this, “oh, Staats’ pool, I’ve been out to his house and all that” They’ll take advantage of that, of you and how cool you are on shift and do things, mischievous things because they don’t think, they “oh Staats is cool, he don’t care, oh, Bob’s cool, he don’t care.”
Staats: I’ve had several incidents where I’ve had to chew their asses on things and I’m like “I don’t know where you’re getting off with this, but no.”
Patton: Yeah.
Davis: [inaudible]
Patton: Let me ask you a couple other very specific questions. And again, I’m asking these to sort of try and get some confirmation, okay? Um, have you ever been told by an Officer, observed yourself, or had any reason to believe that Officer Hall has ever shown up to work intoxicated?
Staats: No.
Patton: Have you ever had any concerns that would fall under the reasonable suspicion category, where maybe she could be intoxicated?
Staats: No. She’s‐I’ve never dealt with her‐slurred speech, stumbling, nothing that would indicate there was any impairment.
Patton: Okay, okay.
Staats: If that were the case, he would have known about that a long time ago.
Patton: You would take action?
Staats: Yes.
Patton: Okay.
Staats: I mean, because it’s a safety issue.
Patton: 100%. Um, when uh Magliocco shared with you on Friday that she had cut herself, was that the very first time that you ever became aware that she was harming herself in any way?
Staats: Yes.
Patton: Okay. Did you ever have any information about her firing a weapon towards herself?
Staats: No.
Patton: Okay. Um‐
Davis: Dry fire.
Staats: I’m not aware of any of this and I talk to the guys. I ask them “how is your family?” I‐if they don’t tell me stuff, am I responsible for it?
Patton: No.
Davis: You’re not responsible for what you don’t know.
Staats: Yeah, because I’m not aware of any issues. I know there’s personality conflicts and I try to fix those and minimize that but‐
Patton: Yeah, here’s what I would say just‐just from a sixty‐thousand‐foot perspective. I always am cautious when I tell somebody what or what not to feel. Because that’s for you to do. However, I would say in this instance, I would separate yourself from the “am I in trouble?” Because we’re telling you you’re not.
Staats: I know but‐
Patton: To the‐I’m asking questions about people that fall under your responsibility, you may have no information about and that’s okay.
Staats: Yeah, because‐
Patton: That’s okay.
Staats: ‐if I think that something’s going on with one of my guys, I talk to them. But also if it’s an issue, me and Bob and Konrad, we talk about things so we’re all on the same page, where I may have some information that he didn’t, or he does that I don’t. So, we can see a bigger picture and then try to fix something.
Patton: Right, right. I’m tracking on that.
Staats: That’s why we try to do a weekly staff meeting, what are the issues, what do we need to do, stuff like that.
Patton: Yep.
Staats: But any problems, we try to nip it in the bud as soon as we’re aware of it.
Patton: Okay. Do you have any information, again, orientation aside, do you have any information about nudes and videos that have been shared within Officers within the department?
Staats: No.
Patton: Have you ever received any nudes from Officers that you work with?
Staats: No, no.
Patton: And you have no information that anybody else has or has not?Staats: No, I wouldn’t think any of them‐
Davis: Okay. Got to ask. Have you sent any dick pics to anybody on shift?
Staats: No.
Davis: Okay.
Patton: Are you aware of any other guys doing it?
Staats: No. Now I will say, some Officer’s wives have seen mine because we were going through my phone and mine was in my camera roll. So, that’s happened. But the guys? No.
Patton: Okay. Nothing’s been texted, Snapchatted?
Staats: No.
Patton: Okay, okay. Um‐
Staats: You don’t put your pen in the company ink. That’s Cop 101.
Patton: So, by this point, 37 minutes in, you get an understanding of what I’ve been looking into.
Staats: It sounds like somebody‐I guess Hall’s having sex with a bunch of people, that’s what it sounds like.
Patton: I just want you to be aware that there’s a significant investigation going on and it’s more widespread than you‐we’ve talked about.
Staats: And not to sound rude, but how am I supposed to know who’s having sex?
Patton: You’re‐you’re not supposed to know.
Davis: You’re not supposed to know.
Staats: I know but you’re‐well you had said there were things I should have known as a supervisor, I’m trying to think of‐
Davis: When I say things like that, I’m not talking about the sex part, I’m talking about there’s been allegations of it happening on duty. Um, you know, quietness on the air, you know, things like that.
Patton: And I‐and I think if I heard Chief correctly, I think the answer was “Yes, you should know. However, you may not.” Okay?
Staats: Yeah, and‐
Patton: So I, again, I don’t think from my seat of the table, I don’t‐I am not assigning that you have done anything wrong or that you intentionally or have not done anything wrong.
Davis: And another reason why I say you should know is because if they had been, they should have uh page thirteen, they should have uh been notifying you.
Patton: That’s handbook page 13.
Davis: That’s it‐that’s it, yeah. That’s why I said yes, you should have known, but no, you may not have known. You get what I’m saying?
Staats: Yeah.
Patton: They have an obligation of theirs if there’s an intimate relationship to notify you or me or Chief or the City Administrator.
Staats: Yeah, because as far as I know, I’m like alright, Schoeberl has a girlfriend, Mags has got a wife, she’s got a husband, Joe, Nick‐everybody, most everybody’s married except for Liedtke, so he’s the oddball out. And Kern, which he’s just going through a divorce. The last thing he wants to deal with is another crazy woman.
Patton: Yeah.
Davis: That’s why I say you should know but don’t, because City policy says so.
Patton: Yeah.
Davis: You haven’t done anything wrong here. I told you that the other night.
Staats: Matter of fact‐yeah, and like that birthday party on my boat, that was‐everybody was invited, hey, do you guys want to come out? Because for me this was a family event. Once Captain Kaul talked to me about separation, I did that.
Patton: Yep.
Staats: And once he explained to me, I’m like “that makes sense” I just know that when I was at the Sheriff’s Office, I would drink with some of my Sergeants and so, it wasn’t a big deal. So, I didn’t think it was a big deal. Lieutenant‐or Captain brought me in, him and Bob, he sat me down, he was like “you can’t do this” and because of that, this is the first event where I’ve invited anybody else out.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Davis: And look what happened. So, what’s that saying?
Staats: Yeah.
Davis: You don’t have to answer, but yeah.
Staats: So um, I’m‐I’m trying to, I’ve been blessed, my husband makes a great deal of money. I have things that I’m blessed with and I want to share that because I know in our line of work, having luxury things like that is not common.
Patton: Right.
Staats: So, I want to give back to my fellow guys that I work with and go “hey, come out” I’ve invited firemen. “Hey, y’all want to come out, you want to fish off the boat, whatever.” Just I want the comradery.
Davis: Speaking of Fire, have you heard of Meagan being involved with anybody in Fire?
Staats: No. I didn’t think Meagan was involved with anybody.
Davis: Okay. First of all, I’m not the best at judging women but, I don’t find her attractive, personally. So, I don’t‐I don’t know what other guys think, but to me, I don’t find her attractive, so, I don’t‐
Patton: Got you.
Davis: I got you.
Staats: I’m not the best person to judge that though.
Davis: You’ve heard the saying “no good deed goes unpunished?”
Staats: Yes. And I‐I‐I’ve‐
Davis: Does that apply here?
Staats: It does because I had stopped but I figured since this was a family event, and‐
Patton: And I‐and I‐I got you.
Davis: And again, this is not about any event that you’ve had at your house, we could care less.
Patton: Yeah, yeah.
Davis: Keep‐keep doing them. I think it’s a great thing for team building and for comradery and all that kind of stuff. Um, just as long as it don’t get back to work.
Staats: Well, I‐I‐I‐
Davis: If it gets back to work let it be a positive thing like “Hey, we went out to Staats house, we had team building exercises.” That’s the stuff I want to hear, I don’t want to hear about somebody pouring vodka down somebody’s throat.
Staats: See, and I didn’t know that this would go anywhere. I just know that they only people that were out there were me and David, PMag, Hall as far as from work and Hall was sloppy, PMag saw that she was sloppy, Durham saw‐my job now as the host is to keep her in a safe position.
Staats: I know that I will see on the map periodically people sitting together. Me and Bob have noticed that and we usually give them a few minutes and then make sure they break up.
Davis: Do you see it anywhere near the substation with any females?
Staats: Well, I‐nobody has access to the substation.
Patton: Now.
Davis: Now.
Staats: Well I mean, before it was just K9 and CSU. Um, well‐I didn’t think anything about it. For me, people going out there‐
Patton: I‐I’m definitely treading out of HR into operation so, you can slap my hand for this but.
Davis: Okay.
Patton: So‐
Staats: Well, I mean if people go out there and say, the only people I knew have a key to it, we have one in our office that’s hanging up, because in case we need it, other than that‐
Patton: Yeah. Out‐outside‐
Staats: ‐it’s K9 and CSU.
Patton: ‐of the substation conversation, what I’m saying is I would be hyper‐focused for a little while on these little groups of people and or, because the little groups of people is where problems are happening. Behavior, work affecting problems are happening. Now, it’s not in‐it’s not impossible, it is probably impossible to completely cut it out, right? Because you’re going to happen, you’re going to go car to car and it’s going to happen. It’s‐it’s where two or more is where there’s a problem. So, I‐just as a my two cents in the mix, when you’re looking at your map and you’re like “oh, we’ve got three or four people all‐and I know they’re not on report.”
Staats: Now generally I’ll see too like, Joe and Nick I’ll see together.
Patton: Yeah.
Staats: And we try to split them up because you know, they’ll feed off of not wanting to do anything. Um, but we’ll see like, PMag, Schoeberl, just people that, I mean
Davis: Let me tell you some hours to really‐really look at that.
Staats: Ten‐
Davis: Ten to twelve.
Patton: You got it.
Staats: Well the thing is, I hadn’t thought about it because usually the only one that’s not at the station is Saing.
Patton: Not at the station meaning right here?
Staats: Yeah, I’ll see a lot of them here at the station working on paperwork or talking‐
Davis: Some of this‐
Patton: Is happening right here behind the building.
Davis: ‐right behind your car.
Staats: Oh, I just‐I know some work out, I know some are just‐
Patton: But they’re not 10‐8 when they work out.
Staats: The last hour of shift you can work out.
Davis: Yeah.
Patton: And be on duty?
Staats: Yes.
Davis: They can take off their top, have their radio in there, work out, if they get a call they have to‐
Patton: Okay, okay.
Davis: Because they’re not primary.
Patton: Okay, got you.
Staats: So, for us when they’ve completed all their paperwork, the last hour of shift, they can.
Davis: That’s something to look at. I’m working out, okay.
Patton: Same group of people.
Davis: [inaudible] Because that’s what they said.
Staats: Yeah, and I’ll see‐
Davis: And like he said, be hyper-vigilant on.Staats: Well tell me if I’m wrong, but we trust people to take people’s lives and people’s freedom, I should be able to trust these fuckers not to be fucking at work.
Patton: I‐I would completely agree with you.
Davis: Yep.
Staats: I‐I don’t‐for me, I’m not‐I’m not even, my mind doesn’t even go to them doing this.
Patton: Eric, the emotion that you have right here, this is where we were living, right now.
Staats: And for me it’s pissing me off because I’m like‐
Patton: Right.
Staats: ‐I trusted you to do what you’re supposed to do, I shouldn’t have to be a goddamn babysitter.
Patton: Correct.
Davis: Let me say this, they took advantage of your trust.
Patton: Yes.
Staats: Well and I do, I trust them to do what’s right and‐and I see them doing something that does deviates, I address it.
Davis: And I’ll take it a step further. And it’s not the group that was here with the Emilio Olivia incident.
Staats: Well it sounds like it’s going to be Mags, Hall, Liedtke, Schoeberl, because that seems to be a group that hangs out outside of work and possibly Lugo. Lugo’s married too, I wouldn’t see him doing anything. And I‐
Davis: Let my silence be your answer.
Staats: Okay.
Patton: Literally thinking‐I was literally thinking don’t get‐don’t get hung up on label.
Davis: So‐so‐so here’s‐so saying that, so saying it then if you put that group of people together that’s‐that speaks volumes to me because that’s saying that that’s‐
Staats: There’s where my problem is. Well and I know I shouldn’t be naïve but I don’t cheat on my husband, I just‐I see it, it’s an integrity issue and I‐one thing we always preach, and I know cops are not‐are horn dogs and all that, I know that, but for some reason nothing has ever indicated to me that there was anything going on. And with Hall, we‐Olivia, I can see it, she was attractive. But not Hall.
Patton: Well. Um, okay. So, when we leave obviously there’s an obligation not to talk about the investigation.
Staats: That’s Garrity.
Patton: You do have an obligation though if anybody talks to you about it to come to Chief or myself, we’re the only two people, and we just need to know the who, what, when, where and how it happened.
Staats: Are my guys getting fired over this?
Patton: Can’t discuss any of that.
Staats: Oh.
Patton: Obviously the two of us don’t do any hiring or firing in the City.
Staats: For what it’s worth, most of my guys really do try their best. They’re still learning and there’s a maturity issue with this entire generation. So, I do have some good guys, for what it’s worth, they’re trying.
Patton: Okay. You good?
Davis: I’m good.
Patton: Alright.
Davis: Thanks, Eric.
Patton: Thank you, sir.
Staats: Yes, sir.
Interview of Officer Patrick Magliocco (372)
Patton: When I start uh investigations um I always like to kind of talk to people um and unfortunately, sometimes that falls on days off.
Magliocco: Yeah.
Patton: So‐
Magliocco: It’s all good.
Patton: Uh, thanks for coming in. Um, before I dive into questions and stuff‐
Magliocco: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: ‐I want Chief to be able to kind of walk through um this Garrity document um, and‐
Davis: You familiar with Garrity?
Magliocco: Yes, sir.
Davis: That Garrity form right there. So, we’re going to have you sign this document here. Do you want me to read it to you or do you want to take a moment to read through it?
Magliocco: I’ll take a moment to read over it myself.
Davis: Okay, then if you agree with it sign right there.
Davis: [inaudible]
Patton: Lotion? That’s the one thing I don’t have in this office.
Davis: Ms. Toni keeps some [inaudible]
Magliocco: Alrighty, so just sign the bottom?
Davis: If you agree or whatever just uh‐
Magliocco: Print and sign.
Patton: And then Chief do you sign the top line?
Davis: I’ll sign.
Patton: Okay.
Magliocco: [inaudible]
Patton: The 13th, yeah. And this document, just for my clarity, this is specific for Law Enforcement?
Davis: Uh, government employees, period.
Patton: Government employees, okay. Thank you, sir.
Davis: Yeah, no problem.
Patton: Um so, uh Patrick when I do investigations I always talk about two things.
Magliocco: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: Um and I tell this to everyone when I start. Number one is um the importance of an investigation regarding confidentiality‐
Magliocco: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: Right? Um, I’m going to ask you some questions about a situation that I’m looking into. Um obviously, I need you to be as honest as you can be. Obviously, you have an obligation as a Police Officer‐
Magliocco: Yeah.
Patton: ‐to tell the truth. Um and my commitment is you know, things will remain confidential.
Magliocco: Okay.
Patton: However, we are a public entity, right? So, um I can only‐I can only keep things confidential while the case is being investigated. Once it’s completed‐
Magliocco: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: ‐it’s obviously subject to public records. So, just‐just so you know.
Magliocco: Okay.
Patton: Um, number two is um you know, we have a no retaliation policy.
Magliocco: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: So, no one’s allowed to retaliate against you for participating in this interview‐
Magliocco: Okay.
Patton: ‐you’re not allowed to retaliate against anybody else who may participate in a similar interview and if you ever feel like that’s happening, I need you to come tell me directly‐
Magliocco: Okay.
Patton: ‐so that I can look into those concerns. Does that make sense?
Magliocco: Yeah.
Patton: Okay. Um so, I want to start by just asking you kind of a general question.
Magliocco: Okay.
Patton: And it’s‐it’s specific to second shift, okay.
Magliocco: Okay.
Patton: Um and the questions at the start will seem a little vague and the reason for that is‐is I want, I don’t want to give you information that you don’t know that you don’t need to know. Um but I’m looking for information to validate‐
Magliocco: Stuff that you already‐
Patton: ‐information that I already have learned through the course of the investigation.
Magliocco: Okay.
Patton: Does that make sense?
Magliocco: Yeah.
Patton: Okay. So, I may not use names, if you know specific names, I’d like you to tell me that.
Magliocco: Okay.
Patton: Because again, that helps me validate.
Magliocco: Alright.
Patton: Okay. Um so, you’ve been a part of the LaVergne Police Department, how long now?
Magliocco: Um, going on almost a year and a half.
Patton: A year and a half, okay.
Magliocco: Well, yeah.
Patton: Okay. And have you been on second shift the whole time?
Magliocco: Um outside of the field training, yes.
Patton: Okay. When did you graduate FTO?
Magliocco: Uh December‐right after Christmas.
Patton: Last year?
Magliocco: Yep.
Patton: Okay. Um who is your‐who do you report to on second shift? Who’s your Sergeant?
Magliocco: Uh‐uh, Sergeant Staats.
Patton: Okay.
Davis: Do you work more days with him?
Magliocco: Yes. Yes, sir.
Davis: Okay.
Magliocco: Uh and then Sergeant Hayes I work one day with him but he’s our like acting shift commander right now.
Patton: Okay. And you don’t have a Lieutenant, correct?
Magliocco: No.
Patton: So‐
Davis: Uh‐uh, Captain Kaul is still‐
Patton: Captain Kaul is over that?
Davis: ‐the commander of the shift‐
Patton: Okay, okay. Um, how would you describe the culture of second shift?
Magliocco: Um, if I describe the culture of second shift I would say it’s‐it’s a lot more laid back than some of the other shifts. I know our supervisors kind of have it as a standpoint as we trust you to do your job, you know.
Davis: Mm‐hmm.
Magliocco: If it’s something big, we’ll be there to help. If you have any questions, we’ll be there to help. Um that’s from kind of a supervisory level. Um, as far as peer to peer‐
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Magliocco: ‐uh, I’m really good friends with basically everybody on the shift‐we do like Saturdays we bring in food, everybody brings in like kind of a potluck thing.
Patton: Okay.
Magliocco: I’d say it’s a very tight, close‐knit kind of group of people.
Patton: Okay. Um, who would you say, to follow up the question, who would you say you’re maybe the closest to, in that group?
Magliocco: Um I would probably say Gavin Schoeberl um, Lugo, uh, Nick Liedtke, and uh, Hall.
Patton: Okay. Um when you guys are on shift‐
Magliocco: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: ‐uh my experience prior to coming here, when I was a dispatcher, is second shift is always busy.
Magliocco: For the most part. That’s pretty‐
Patton: Yeah, when you guys are not busy um are you car to car with any particular person, regularly, are you in a parking lot waiting for the next dispatch, like, what is your typical?
Magliocco: Yeah, so if we’re not um it kind of depends on the vibes of the day.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Magliocco: If we’re‐if we’re definitely if we’re short we’ll um, I usually work zones with um Schoeberl.
Patton: Okay.
Magliocco: So, we’ll like buddy up between um between zone three and zone one that way if I get a call, he can respond with me, if I get a call I can respond with him type thing.
Patton: Okay.
Magliocco: If there’s more um Officers available and you know, we’re caught up on stuff we’ll meet up you know, at different locations together like two or three of us.
Patton: Okay, okay. Prior to coming in to this morning, obviously you got a call yesterday, right? From Chief that you‐
Magliocco: Uh, yeah from the assistant, yeah.
Patton: ‐from, yeah, to come in today. Do you have any idea of what I’m looking into? Have you heard any kind of chatter among the second shift team?
Magliocco: The only chatter um that’s got around the department right now is obviously just with Hall being out.
Patton: Okay.
Magliocco: Uh‐
Patton: What is the conversation that you’re hearing about that?
Magliocco: The looking into, or about her?
Patton: Both.
Davis: Yeah, all of it.
Magliocco: The‐all the chatter?
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Magliocco: There’s honestly not much um I know she has said some questionable stuff to us in the past and that’s made us extremely worried when we didn’t hear from her because she’s always answering in the group chats and stuff. And then um, I can’t remember if it was Thursday or Friday, um it was just you know, hey, don’t talk about this, don’t look into this, she’s safe but just drop it. And we’re like “Okay.”
Patton: Who‐who said that?
Magliocco: Um, Staats and Hayes were just like “Let it alone, she’s safe, bud.”
Patton: Okay.
Magliocco: Just kind of you know just hush hush on it right now.
Patton: Okay. Um, outside of that do you have any other information on what‐why you might be here today?
Magliocco: Nope.
Patton: Okay. Have you had any conversation with Officer Hall since last Thursday?
Magliocco: Yeah, she, so, last Thursday I sent out a text message “Hey, just checking in.” Because we haven’t heard from her and then yesterday afternoon she texted me and said “Hey, I’m doing good, thanks for asking.” And I said “Good to hear.” And that’s all I said.
Patton: Okay, okay, okay. How often um do second shifters get together outside of work?
Magliocco: Hm. It‐it kind of varies on our schedule. Um most of us like to get together um at least the guys, me, Schoeberl, Liedtke, Lugo, every Tuesday or try to get out together every Tuesday. Hall sometimes tags along um but like yesterday we all moved Lugo into his new house. The week before, everybody was sick, um and then the week before that we all you know, went out and grabbed drinks at Lugo’s house and just kind of hung out there.
Patton: Okay, okay. You guys all share the same RDOs?
Magliocco: Um, we have overlapping ones.
Patton: Okay.
Magliocco: Yeah.
Patton: Okay, but Tuesday seems to be the day.
Magliocco: Yeah, that’s‐that’s the main day.
Patton: Okay. So, are you personally familiar with any members of second shift who are involved in a relationship right now?
Magliocco: Like‐
Patton: Amongst‐amongst each other.
Magliocco: No.
Patton: No.
Magliocco: No.
Patton: Okay. Have you heard any chatter about it?
Magliocco: Not amongst the shift.
Patton: What have you heard chatter about?
Magliocco: Um, I wouldn’t say relationships amongst the shift but I have been told there’s been some times an Officer on the shift and somebody else in the department has co‐mingled.
Patton: Okay. When was the last time you heard about that?
Magliocco: Maybe a month or two ago.
Patton: Okay.
Magliocco: Month and a half ago, somewhere in that range.
Patton: Do you know who the people are?
Magliocco: Yeah.
Patton: Okay. Who are those people?
Magliocco: Um, well, one’s Hall, one’s um Sergeant Powell and I believe Larry Holladay, as well.
Patton: Okay. So, just a moment to say, I understand that’s a difficult question to answer.
Magliocco: Yeah.
Patton: Okay. Part of my job is to ask the difficult questions, right. Um, and it’s to try to figure out what’s happening. So, I appreciate your honesty there. Um, can you share more with me, we’ll start with Sergeant Powell, can you share more with me about what you’ve heard um about what’s happened between the two of them?
Magliocco: Out‐outside of it happening, um‐
Davis: What’s the it?
Magliocco: I‐I
Davis: Outside of what happening? What’s the it?
Magliocco: I don’t know the full extent of it, I just know that there was some interactions that happened as far‐I don’t know how far‐of a sexual nature um, we um, like I said we’re all real close and we were at my wife and I were at Hall and her husband’s house and her husband wasn’t home yet and they had been drinking and she was like “Oh, blah blah blah blah blah” and I was like “I’m going to pretend I didn’t hear that.” Um‐
Patton: So, I’m going to pause you because I want you to restate what you just said.
Magliocco: Yeah, sorry.
Patton: So, you and your wife‐
Magliocco: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: ‐were at Hall’s house‐
Magliocco: Hall’s house, yeah.
Patton: Her husband was not home.
Magliocco: Yeah, he was on his way home from work.
Patton: Okay. She was drinking‐
Magliocco: Yeah, with my wife.
Patton: ‐and she started to share with your wife, or with both of you?
Magliocco: Um, I guess more directly at my wife, I mean I was just‐
Patton: Okay.
Magliocco: ‐sitting over here.
Patton: Okay. So, she started to share with your wife about how she had been with Sergeant Howell?
Magliocco: Yes.
Patton: And you‐
Davis: Powell, say Powell.
Patton: Powell, Powell, with a P.
Davis: Yeah.
Magliocco: Yep.
Patton: Um, and you heard it?
Magliocco: Yes.
Patton: Okay. Can you think back and, I’m sorry to ask you to use descriptive language, but can you think back to what she said?
Magliocco: She really didn’t say much outside of‐and‐just that he had a very big, black dick.
Patton: Okay.
Magliocco: Um, I mean that’s all I really care to hear at that point.
Patton: I understand. Did you get the impression that it happened while she was on duty?
Magliocco: That I’m not sure of.
Patton: Have you heard that rumor that it’s happened while she was on duty?
Magliocco: No.
Patton: Okay. Is that the only time it’s come up is that‐in that situation?
Magliocco: Um, as far as him, yeah.
Patton: Okay. What do you‐what can you share about Officer Holladay?
Magliocco: Um, as far as I know with that, I think they just like kissed and stuff.
Patton: Okay.
Magliocco: Um, they were at‐it was when the Bills were playing the Chiefs and we were all meeting over there to watch the game, I happened to have that Sunday off because it just, schedule things, and there was some issues going on at the house and she kind of disappeared for a little bit and I’m like, “Where the hell did you go?” and she was like “Oh, we were just like kissing over there.” And I was like “Okay.” But‐
Davis: She told you this?
Magliocco: Yes.
Patton: So, again, you’re at her house?
Magliocco: Uh, no we’re at Holladay’s house.
Patton: You’re at Holladay’s house and there were issues at the house, meaning at her house or at
Holladay’s house?
Magliocco: Well, there’s always issues going on at Hall’s house but um, at Holladay’s house um just like, between him and his ex‐girlfriend or whatever and there was some drama there. Then next thing I know I’m alone in the living room, everybody’s gone, like where the heck is everybody? So, I’m calling my wife, “hey, come pick me up.” And she came out, then later she was like “Oh, you know we were just kissing over there.” And I was like “Okay, well if you need a ride, call my wife. Because I’m going.” Because I had about had it at that point. So, that’s all I know with that.
Patton: What can you share about what’s always, in your words, happening at Hall’s house?
Magliocco: She’s just‐I mean I feel bad talking about it but she just has a lot of marital issues going on. Um, she drinks a lot, like a lot a lot. Um, I also know, she’s shared with me that she’s been on‐I don’t know what kind of medications‐some medications. Um, and I know that that’s not always good to mix. Um, and like I kind of let this conversation when you guys asked what’s been said amongst the shift, that’s what we were talking about because we’re like, concerned.
Davis: Mind if I ask a question real quick?
Patton: I’m sorry?
Davis: Mind if I ask a question real quick?
Patton: No, go ahead.
Davis: Back at Holladay’s house, was drinking taking place then too?
Magliocco: Yes.
Davis: Okay.
Magliocco: Yes, sir. Um, and that’s kind of where our concerns were coming in and why you know, if you guys heard what questions were being asked is because we’re like‐the pattern, ever since her suspension, her husband left for the academy and it just‐her freaking‐I mean, she’s a great Officer. Awesome, awesome Officer and then all of a sudden, we kind of noticed a change in her work behavior. Um, just not answering calls the way she usually does, she’s usually hanging out around‐you know, with us, talking. She was leaving early, um and then she would send you know, texts like you know, “I don’t have any friends, why don’t you guys want to hang out with me?” we’re like, “We do want to hang out with you, but like, you’re always drinking and you live in Manchester we you know, we’re not going to drive there to pick you up and you obviously can’t drive out here.” Because we all live in Murfreesboro or Smyrna. Um, and then we didn’t hear from her. So, you know, we all got super concerned and then thankfully you know, our supervisor was like “She’s safe.” But, so.
Patton: Okay. Um, I’m going to ask you uh, a question that will, it’s hard‐it’s impossible to answer with fact‐
Magliocco: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: ‐so, it’s more of what your gut says.
Magliocco: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: Okay, and I think I want to know your gut as a friend and also your gut as a Police Officer.
Magliocco: Yeah.
Patton: In your opinion, has Officer Hall come to work intoxicated?
Magliocco: I really don’t think so. Um, now I’m trying to like think back. That’s my initial go would be, I don’t think that would be in her nature to come to work intoxicated. Um‐
Patton: Has there been a situation where you guys have been like “Hey, have you seen Hall today? Like she’s just not‐“
Magliocco: Yes. 100%, especially in the last couple of weeks. Where we‐
Patton: Which‐which‐
Magliocco: We heard on the radio‐I’m sorry, go ahead.
Patton: Which adds to like reasonable suspicion.
Magliocco: I don’t think she would have, no. Again, she’s been acting so different lately, I don’t want to say “Oh, I know for a fact she hasn’t.” Because I don’t know. But it just doesn’t‐it seems outside her character for her to do that.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Magliocco: Um‐
Davis: Was‐was it prior to her husband leaving for academy?
Magliocco: Everything kind of fell‐well‐
Davis: Right around the same time?
Magliocco: Everything kind of happened at the same time. Like I said the‐once her husband left it was just, her whole freaking work just, um‐
Patton: And that was all post‐accident, correct?
Magliocco: Yes. Yes, sir. Um, it’s‐it’s just kind of hard to say because again, we haven’t really seen her that much at work. I mean, like I said, everybody would park up, especially close to the end of shift, excuse me, and um, she just kind of went MIA. Especially for a couple of days like, we wouldn’t hear her on the radio. She would go to a call, but you know, she’d be on this side of the city, I’d be over here, so I wouldn’t hear her on the radio. She usually makes ten, fifteen traffic stops a night, zero. Just‐like a ghost. So, it’s kind of hard to say. Um
Patton: Are you aware if the Sergeants on the shift were aware of that change and what, if anything, they did about it?
Magliocco: So, I went to Staats‐so‐let me back pedal a little bit. Um, with everything like I said that’s been going on, we were talking about it and Hall’s acting differently. Like I said, we usually hang out on Tuesdays, last Tuesday everybody was sick. So, my wife and I are like “instead of hanging out, we’re going to go get a Christmas tree.” So, we were decorating and she was like “I need you and your wife to come out to Manchester, I can’t be alone right now.” And we’re like “We’ll be there if you need us. Um, but like, what’s going on?” And she didn’t really say and then she goes “Never mind, don’t worry about it.” And then she called us like three hours later, she’s like, “I’m on my way over, can I come over and help decorate?” and we’re like “Sure.” Um, and she did show up intoxicated um, seemed to be fine though, I mean her and my wife were laughing, decorating and you know I was trying to get the tree set up, swearing at it. Um, and then she got a phone call from her husband and she said “I got to go and goodbye.” And out the door she went, and that’s the last I heard of her until yesterday.
Patton: Did she drink while she was at your house?
Magliocco: Yes. Uh, she‐she did.
Patton: Um‐
Magliocco: And we were like “Hey, do you want us to drive you home?”
Patton: Why did you let her leave?
Magliocco: Um‐
Patton: Why‐why did you let her drive, specifically?
Magliocco: I don’t have a good answer for that.
Patton: Okay.
Magliocco: I really don’t.
Patton: Why did you not share with command or HR the concern about when she said “I can’t be alone?”
Magliocco: So, that’s when I went to Staats on‐I got to be honest, I didn’t really know how to handle that situation. Um, that was Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Staats was sick, I called him that night because I was expecting to see him on Thursday and I said, “Hey” I said, “I’ve got to talk to you about Hall.” And he goes “What’s going on?” and I just started kind of sharing all the patterns we recently‐
Davis: This past Thursday?
Magliocco: Yes, just a couple of days ago. Um, Thurs‐Thursday night because I was expecting him to be at work and he wasn’t there and that was kind of my first day back type thing. Um, and it’s also‐it’s also kind of been one of those things were um, I know it’s not PC to say but you know, I know she’s had issues in the past and she’s always been like “Hey, can we talk?” “Yeah, what’s up?” “Oh, I’m feeling this, I’m feeling that” “You feeling better?” “Yeah.” “Good.” Um, and then was it‐I can’t remember what day of the week it was, I know she had said she cut herself too. I don’t know if that was either Monday or Tuesday.
Davis: Intentionally cut herself?
Magliocco: Y‐yes, sir. Um, I’m sorry. I’m just‐
Davis: No, take your time. It’s‐it’s hard.
Magliocco: ‐it’s just‐
Davis: It’s hard but‐
Magliocco: ‐it is because I don’t want to, excuse my language, I don’t want to like you know, be that person but I’m also concerned about her wellbeing.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Davis: And that’s why you’re doing this.
Magliocco: Yes.
Davis: It’s not because you’re trying to get her in trouble or anything like that‐
Magliocco: Yeah.
Davis: ‐you’re doing it‐you’re doing it to give us a better understanding so we’ll know how to proceed with her.
Magliocco: Yeah.
Davis: She obviously wants to come back to work‐
Magliocco: Yeah.
Davis: ‐but uh, we have to make sure that she’s together‐
Magliocco: Yeah.
Davis: ‐you know, to come back to work. So, what you’re doing with us is straight, it’s‐it’s a good thing, don’t think it’s a bad thing. But uh, we have to get this information so Andrew will know how to proceed uh going forward.
Patton: Did you and/or your wife take the Tuesday phone call, while you were setting up the Christmas tree, of “Hey, can you guys come here? I shouldn’t be alone.” Did you take that to understand that she was suicidal?
Magliocco: I‐so‐here’s kind of the deal with Meagan. Um, she’s talked about it before, not like suicide directly like “I’m going to kill myself,” it’s always been like “I used to have issues with this” Um‐
Patton: With suicidal thoughts? What’s the “this?”
Magliocco: I guess just harmful thoughts.
Patton: Okay.
Magliocco: Um, I don’t know how long ago that was. Um, that’s when‐that’s how I know that she was kind of on medication for it because she was like “I’m on medication now, I’m doing good” you know, everything is good. Um, and she would just occasionally with some of the‐that tension at home, just kind of break down a little bit and that’s when you know, we would just talk it out, she would feel better, and we would be good for a month or two, or whatever. Um, towards the end, yes, I did start thinking that. Um‐uh, just kind of a gut feeling.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Magliocco: Because I, I don’t know. I called my wife and I’m like, actually after I um, after I talked to Staats Thursday, I said, “I’m really concerned about her.” Now at this point, I said, “I feel good that I got it off my chest.” It was just‐it was just really that hard decision for me because, kind of like you said, you know, I don’t want to get anybody in trouble. I just want what’s best for them.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Magliocco: Um, but at that point I was, I don’t care if she got in trouble at that point, I just want to make sure she’s safe.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Magliocco: Um, I mean, I’d say yeah. Um, probably should have came forward about that a little sooner, I guess. But, I was again kind of in that, you know, oh, maybe it’s just the‐the thing for the day and she’s having a bad day type thing. Not a actual threat of it, if that makes any sense.
Patton: Um, have you had training whether in the academy or here at the department related to how to deal with mental health concerns when you see them, hear them‐
Magliocco: Yeah.
Patton: ‐steps that you should take. Okay. Are you familiar with anybody else at the Police Department who’s had suicidal thoughts?
Magliocco: Just rumors. Um‐
Patton: W‐what have you heard?
Magliocco: I just know that there was an incident with Tackette. I don’t know anything else about it, other than there was an incident and that’s about it. Um, just kind of back pedaling up, a lot of this stuff that Hall has shared where I’ve been like eh, kind of questioning her stuff, she’s always followed up with “But I’ve already seen my therapist and I’m good.” Um, so I’ve always just kind of been like, okay, I mean, she’s seeing her therapist, she’s making the right steps, hopefully things change.
Patton: So, just a little perspective, if that’s okay, to give to you.
Magliocco: Yeah, please, please.
Patton: Um, uh, because Officer Tackette has shared publicly about her experience, um you know, I‐I would never share, everybody’s story is their own story to tell.
Magliocco: Yeah.
Patton: But she was um, and I don’t use this word lightly, but she was brave enough to be a part of our last Leadership Summit and she shared her story with all of the Directors, the Chiefs, Leaders, um and it was very emotional for her. Um, and she shared about the fact that she wanted to kill herself.
Magliocco: Yeah.
Patton: The only reason‐I shouldn’t say that, not the only reason, one of the reasons that she didn’t is because um, somebody made direct contact with her and said “Hey, do you want to talk?” Right? When we know, or have any indication, that somebody is thinking about suicide, there is an obligation to take action and that is one of the hardest things to do when it’s like a close friend.
Magliocco: Yeah.
Patton: But I would, my encouragement to you would be, in the future, do not sit on that information. Um, because what if‐heaven forbid something happened between Tuesday and Thursday. You would have a hard time processing that.
Magliocco: And that’s what was‐I don’t mean to break you off here, um, I had this exact conversation with Lugo. Uh, he said he’s lost friends to suicide that he probably could have stepped in and helped and he goes “It’s not something you want in your head.”
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Magliocco: “Go talk to Staats.”
Patton: Yep, and if you’re not getting the answers and the response that you think you need from that leader, you should not stop.
Magliocco: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: I know that there’s‐I may say something that offends Chief, but I know that there’s chain of command.
Magliocco: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: But when it comes to mental health, you can throw all of that out the window. You can walk into Chief’s office, you can walk into my office, you can walk into anybody’s office and say “I’m waving the flag until somebody hears me.”
Magliocco: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: Um, because even just telling a supervisor, if you leave that phone call, and I’m making an assumption here, but if you leave that phone call and don’t feel like you can say “I feel better. I got it off my chest, but I don’t know that anything will be done. That’s not enough yet.
Magliocco: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: Um, in these situations. So, just for the future‐
Magliocco: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: Um, you know, and I told Chief yesterday, I said, “I haven’t spent a lot of time with Patrick but every time I have it’s very comfortable, we’ve sat in my office and done 401 stuff together‐“
Magliocco: Yeah.
Patton: Like I just feel like, you know, I just want to be able to say like, um, you‐you know, I hope to be a trusted source.
Magliocco: Yeah.
Patton: Um, but in these kind of situations please do not sit on it. Call any of us in the middle of the night and be like “I’ve‐I got to tell somebody this.”
Magliocco: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: We will take action. I think the reason that Officer Tackette is still here today is because we took action. Um, so, that’s‐that’s an aside. Um, what can you tell me about a recent party at‐at Sergeant Staats’ house?
Magliocco: Recent party? How recent is recent?
Patton: Some kind of a hot tub party. Were you present for a hot tub party recently? In the last few weeks?
Magliocco: No.
Patton: When was the last time you were at Sergeant Staats’ house for a party?
Magliocco: I’ve never been to his house for a party, I’ve been to his house boat…Memorial Day.
Patton: Okay. Are you aware of a party at his house recently?
Magliocco: Nope.
Patton: Okay. Are you aware of a hot tub party that he hosted?
Magliocco: Nope.
Patton: Okay, and that’s the honest answer?
Magliocco: I‐I’ve been nothing but honest with you guys, I’m kind of shocked because usually there’s always an open invite so‐
Patton: Okay.
Magliocco: ‐that’s the first I’ve‐
Davis: Is there a hot tub on the house boat?
Magliocco: There was a hot tub on the house boat.
Patton: Okay.
Davis: When you all have gone to parties on the house boat, have people been in the hot tub?
Magliocco: Yes.
Davis: Okay.
Patton: Memorial Day was the last time you were there for that?
Davis: [inaudible]
Magliocco: Yeah, yeah, it was Memorial Day.
Patton: Who was at that Memorial Day party? Can you remember?
Magliocco: Um, it was Eric, his husband‐as far as adults?
Patton: Sure.
Magliocco: Okay. Meagan, my wife, me, Durham, his wife, I think that’s it from here. I’m trying to think, there was a couple other various people but I didn’t really know who they were.
Patton: So, Durham and his wife, you and your wife, Meagan, no husband‐
Magliocco: Yep, yep.
Patton: ‐and Staats and his husband?
Magliocco: Yep.
Patton: Okay.
Davis: One, two, three, four, five, six‐seven‐seven‐seven adults?
Magliocco: Yep.
Patton: Okay.
Magliocco: There was more adults there but I have no idea who they were.
Davis: That you were familiar with.
Magliocco: Yeah.
Patton: Not from LPD?
Magliocco: Yeah, not from LPD.
Patton: Okay. Would you use the terminology that it was a “girl’s gone wild” party?
Magliocco: No, not at all.
Patton: Was there any behavior that would be close to that description?
Magliocco: I don’t think intentionally. Um, the only thing that would be even close to that was Hall had been drinking absolutely heavily, enough to where we were going to go out tubing, and Staats had to stay on the boat because she couldn’t even go down his flight of stairs. And then I know later in the hot tub that night like her top came undone and they like pulled it down quick. Like not in like a
Patton: She pulled it down quick, or someone else pulled it down quick?
Magliocco: No, like it had just from‐
Patton: Did it come off?
Magliocco: ‐it had‐like literally itself it just kind of like rolled down and they just kind of you know, pulled up on the straps.
Davis: Was she that intoxicated where she didn’t know, or…?
Magliocco: She had no idea. She didn’t even know it occurred.
Davis: Okay. Who was in the hot tub with her at the time?
Magliocco: Um, myself, Durham, Staats.
Patton: Did you all see her?
Magliocco: Like that happened?
Patton: Did you see her without a top on?
Magliocco: I mean it wasn’t‐I mean, when I say without a top on I mean like a boob fell out‐
Patton: Okay.
Magliocco: ‐and then they kind of just hoisted it back in.
Patton: You keep saying they, who’s the “they” that hoisted it back in?
Magliocco: I can’t‐I think it was Staats. It was either Staats or Durham, I‐I can’t really remember.
Patton: Okay.
Magliocco: But it wasn’t like her exposing herself or anything like that, she was just so intoxicated at that point it was just‐it just kind of‐and she had no clue so, we were like “Meagan, like‐“
Patton: Okay.
Magliocco: One of those things.
Patton: Okay.
Magliocco: But‐
Davis: She was coherent enough to stay above the water inside the hot tub?
Magliocco: Yeah.
Patton: Um, alright, I’m going to bounce back to the topic about relationships. You talked about
Sergeant Powell, you talked about Officer Holladay.
Magliocco: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: Um, did you share with me everything that you know about what happened between her and
Powell and her and Holladay?
Magliocco: Yes, everything I do know about it.
Patton: Okay. I appreciate that‐
Magliocco: Yeah, it’s‐
Patton: ‐because as I said to you at the start of the conversation, I want‐I’m asking you questions to validate.
Magliocco: Yeah.
Patton: That’s all information I have already. Okay, so you didn’t tell me anything I didn’t know.
Magliocco: Okay, that makes me feel a lot better because I was like “oh my god, like‐“
Patton: However‐
Magliocco: Yeah?
Patton: The information I have is that you were also involved with her.
Magliocco: Yeah. So‐
Patton: But you have not mentioned that to me.
Magliocco: I was kind of waiting for you to lead into that.
Patton: Okay.
Magliocco: So, beginning‐let’s see‐trying to think of when [inaudible] last spring my wife and I were kind of like “Oh, we’re going to like open things up and try things.” Um, and that’s kind of when I was like oh, well, because she had asked “hey, do you want to do some stuff?” I was like, “Yeah.”
Patton: Okay.
Davis: Who asked?
Magliocco: Hall.
Patton: So, Hall had asked you‐
Magliocco: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: ‐did‐did you tell her that you guys were entering an open marriage?
Magliocco: Yeah, I told‐well, I told her we were just trying the open thing for a little bit.
Patton: Okay. So‐
Magliocco: And she said “Oh, that’s exactly what me and my husband do.” So, you know, I didn’t think anything really of it.
Patton: Okay. So, you and your wife and Hall and her husband?
Magliocco: Well, it turns out no. But um, it was just kind of a‐I don’t know‐she‐I had said, because she was like “Oh, do you want to?” I was like “Well, my wife and I are in an open thing kind of right now, we’re trying it out.” She goes, “My husband and I are too.” And it turns out that that’s not the case. Um, but he was‐so, he wasn’t involved with it.
Davis: So, when you say that’s not the case, stop me whenever.
Magliocco: Mm‐hmm.
Davis: You and Meagan connected.
Magliocco: Mm‐hmm.
Davis: But your wife and her husband did not.
Magliocco: Correct.
Davis: Okay. At what point did you know that, that did not take place?
Magliocco: Maybe a month, two months ago. So‐
Davis: And if you don’t know‐if you don’t know, that’s okay. But do you know whose choice it was for them not to connect?
Magliocco: I have no idea.
Davis: Okay.
Magliocco: Probably his‐well, let me just kind of roll you through.
Davis: Okay.
Magliocco: So, I’ve had connections with Meagan three times. Um, there was uh the first time was after the house boat thing. Um, and we had basically just kissed a little bit and I called my wife and I was like “Hey” and she was like, “Oh, it’s fine, whatever.” Like, you know, um, then there was a night that her and her husband had come over and she like, kind of like, they were like doing something in the kitchen, she like pulled me in the other room and we made out a little bit and were touching each other. Um, and then there was another night where we were at their house, it was the same night that she had shared the um information about Sergeant Powell and she was trying to get with my wife a little bit and we all kind of, we didn’t go all the way together, um that time, but there were talks of like, a threesome type thing going on.
Patton: So, the threesome never happened?
Magliocco: Correct. I mean, outside of all it was kind of like kissing and stuff, but it never like happened.
Patton: Okay. Um, but you and Meagan have had sex?
Magliocco: Yes.
Patton: And to your knowledge, Meagan and Sergeant Powell have had sex?
Magliocco: Yes.
Patton: And Meagan and Officer Holladay have had sex?
Magliocco: I don’t know if they’ve had sex, I just know that they’ve kissed.
Patton: Okay.
Davis: Can you think of anybody else who, maybe on shift or outside of the shift [inaudible] Even if it’s just speculation.
Magliocco: So, here’s‐and here’s kind of the deal. So, once that night happened with me and my wife and Meagan, and then her husband had came home and then she was making out with my wife and he was like “Hey, what the fuck?” And she was like “Oh, you’re always on board.” He was like, “What are you talking about?” And that’s when I was like “Has this not been a thing? Kind of‐thing‐” I kind of didn’t bring that up to him but I talked to Meagan the next day and I’m like “Is your husband not been on board with any of this?” And she’s like, “Well, he doesn’t know.” And I’m like you know, so then I felt horrible. Um, so kind of after that point, that’s when I pumped the brakes. Um, I‐I do know that she’s sent stuff out. Um, pictures of herself to shift mates. Um‐
Patton: And you’re talking about nudes?
Magliocco: Yes. Um, there’s‐there was one night, it was right before I went to Florida so, I don’t know‐
Davis: Do you know which shift mates?
Magliocco: Uh, I’ll‐I’ll just get to that in a second, if you don’t mind.
Davis: Okay.
Magliocco: Um, and she had texted me, she goes, “Hey, I need to borrow $50.” And I was like, “For what?” and she was like, “Oh, I just want to like try something out, I’ll get it right back to you here in a little bit.” I was like, “I’m about to go to Florida tomorrow, I need my money.” Like, kind of like just trying to figure out what she wanted it for. So, I was like, “Why do you need your money?” And she was like, “I’ll make it worth your while.” And I was like, “No, I don’t care, just like whatever.” And she was like, “Well” she goes, “I’m trying to get a hotel room but I don’t want my husband to know” Um, like, and she didn’t tell me who it was for, who it was with, um, and then she proceeded to send explicit photos and I said, “Please, don’t send that to my phone.” Um, and I deleted them. She said, “Oh, I’m sorry, I was just you know.” I was like, “Yeah, I’m not going to send you money so you can cheat on your husband more.”
Patton: And did you assume that was to get a hotel room with an LPD Officer?
Magliocco: That I don’t know. Um, I‐it’s hard for me to say because I‐I kind of assumed. Because that’s kind of the only pool she had kind of [inaudible] from type thing. I don’t really know what her‐outside of LPD I don’t really know her‐who‐if she has friends or you know, who she has. So, the only people that I know that she had been with at that point were LPD Officers, and the fact that she wasn’t telling me, even though she’s told me stuff before, um, kind of led me to believe that because that other stuff’s kind of been her like intoxicated in passing and like saying stuff. Um, but I wouldn’t have the slightest idea who that would be. So, I’m just going to keep on continuing.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Magliocco: So, as far as the pictures goes um, I had an Officer pull me aside and said‐
Patton: Who?
Magliocco: Uh, Lugo and said “Hey, man. Um, has Hall like, sent you anything?” and I said, “Like what do you mean?” and he was like “She just send me some freaking wild ass pictures. And says if you ever want a booty call, let me know.” And I was like “What the fuck?” I think it was on a Sunday, I don’t know what Sunday it would have been because she was home, and we were‐we were right‐wrapping up shift and I was like, “Woah.” I said, “I would recommend not getting involved in that.” And I didn’t go into detail, but I explained the whole, her and her husband are going through problems thing. Just base line, like, and he said “I don’t plan on it.” And he just‐I‐deleted those photos and other, that was all of that.
Patton: Okay. Who else got photos?
Magliocco: That I don’t know. Um, it would leave me to believe more people because I mean, I’m sure
Powell did, I’m sure Holladay has. Um, I don’t know. It got‐it just got to the point where I knew this day was coming because it was just so many people, it was just and‐and it wasn’t even to the point anymore where like‐when it was just kind of that thing where I just thought it was me, her, my wife, her husband and then obviously that didn’t turn out I was like “Okay, like this is just taking place‐home, we never are, are work habits have never changed. We never, never did anything at work and she had prompted that and I said “Absolutely not.”
Patton: So, pause there because that was actually my next question.
Magliocco: Yes.
Patton: I have information‐
Magliocco: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: ‐that some of these acts took place on shift.
Magliocco: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: What can you tell me about that?
Magliocco: As far as like Hall’s actions on shift?
Patton: With some of the people that you’ve mentioned.
Magliocco: I‐I don’t mean to go back on stuff I said earlier and un‐mis‐uncredit myself, I don’t want to get in trouble.
Davis: Just talk, you’re good.
Magliocco: Um, she also said that her and Powell did stuff on shift. Um, little bit more than that, I know that, I don’t know where but she said that she would, she was giving him blow jobs and stuff.
Davis: Powell?
Magliocco: Yes.
Patton: When did you‐when did you learn that information?
Magliocco: I don’t remember, it would have been three, four, five months ago. Um, and that’s when I was like, cause all of that kind of came out all at once and I was like, “I’m fucking done. Like, I’m not losing my job over this.” Um, cause I was like, I don’t want to‐I know it’s‐I know it’s that grey area where you know, some stuff happens outside and it doesn’t directly affect you know, work performances it’s you know, is it the best thing? No. But you know, it‐I’m still doing my job here but when I heard that I was like, “I need [inaudible] like.”
Patton: Um, is the information that you received from her on that, that it was in patrol cars, was it in parks, was it in hotel rooms, where was it?
Magliocco: I don’t know. Um, the back of my head says substation, but I don’t think‐I don’t know if that’s, I‐I really don’t know.
Patton: Who‐who else have you heard about activity on shift with other than Powell?
Magliocco: No one. That’s the only one, that’s the only one I’ve heard and that was right from her. So‐
Davis: She‐she told you that?
Magliocco: Yes, sir. Um, like I said, as far as‐I know I‐it‐it’s hard. Um, I‐I‐I obviously I left that out. Um, as far as Holladay goes, like I said, it was just that one time thing. She said we were kind of kissing and that’s all I’ve heard of that.
Patton: On shift?
Magliocco: No, no, no, no, at the house. I’m sure other things have‐I mean, I can assume uh given the behaviors other things have occurred but all I know is that‐there’s no rumors about it either, that’s just what I know is that it happened there at his house.
Davis: Does he live local?
Magliocco: Do I live local?
Davis: Does he live local?
Magliocco: Um‐
Davis: Where‐where does he live?
Magliocco: Murfreesboro.
Davis: He used to live in‐so, this party was in Murfreesboro.
Magliocco: Yeah.
Davis: I thought he used to live in LaVergne.
Magliocco: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Davis: It did not happen here.
Magliocco: No. Yeah, no, it did not happen here. All of this is in Murfreesboro. Um, and that‐that’s the only person I know that it happened on shift.
Davis: Is‐is Sergeant Powell.
Magliocco: Yeah.
Davis: Okay.
Patton: Okay. I’m going to show you a list of people who work at LPD.
Magliocco: Okay.
Patton: This is your second shift grouping right in here.
Magliocco: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: Their names are starting right here with Sergeant Hayes. Look down through this list, and I want you to tell me people that did not have knowledge that this was taking place.
Magliocco: Did not have‐
Patton: Did not have knowledge.
Magliocco: Okay, so, no clue that this was going on. I mean, honestly outside of me, I really don’t know.
Patton: Okay.
Magliocco: I don’t know what she’s shared with other people.
Patton: But, based on reading those lists, reading those names you just did, you didn’t say anybody which would lead me to say that your assumption, is that correct? That everybody had knowledge that this behavior was taking place?
Magliocco: No, not at all.
Patton: Okay.
Magliocco: There’s‐I don’t‐
Davis: I‐can I do this a different way?
Patton: Yes.
Magliocco: Yes.
Davis: Okay, let me‐let’s do this. Has Bob said anything to you?
Magliocco: Nope.
Davis: Sergeant Staats say anything to you?
Magliocco: Nope.
Davis: You said something to Sergeant Staats though, right?
Magliocco: Ye‐Thursday.
Davis: Have you said anything to Sergeant Staats in regards to her having relations with somebody on duty [inaudible]?
Magliocco: No.
Davis: Okay. Um, Sal?
Magliocco: Nope.
Davis: He’s never said anything to you about it? Okay.
Magliocco: Nope.
Davis: Uh, Cline.
Magliocco: Nope.
Davis: Has Cline ever been at any of these parties? Or around in any of these situations?
Magliocco: No.
Davis: Sal?
Magliocco: Nope.
Davis: Bob?
Magliocco: Nope.
Davis: We know Eric has.
Magliocco: Mm‐hmm.
Davis: Uh, Kash Cross?
Magliocco: Nah, he’s so new I mean I just met him for like the first time the other day and actually had a conversation with him.
Davis: Okay. Has‐has Greg Kern said anything to you? Has he ever been around?
Magliocco: Nope.
Davis: Uh, Liedtke. Has he been around?
Magliocco: He’s been around but not any of this stuff, like just in the friend group and I know you’re kind of going down the list‐
Davis: I am.
Magliocco: ‐but um, the only other person I’ve really ever talked to about it is Lugo and that was just that whole thing‐
Davis: Well, I‐I‐I’m doing it for a reason.
Magliocco: Sorry.
Davis: Okay, so, has Liedtke said anything?
Magliocco: Nope.
Davis: Nickalai Powell?
Magliocco: Nope.
Davis: Has he ever been around other than the friends group thing?
Magliocco: Nope.
Davis: Rhea?
Magliocco: Nope, I‐same thing, I just kind of met him the other day.
Davis: Okay. Gavin, other than the friends group?
Magliocco: Nope.
Davis: Then Saing?
Magliocco: Nope.
Davis: No comments, no‐none of those?
Magliocco: They‐when he first started they kind of had a‐
Davis: Who’s he? Danny Saing or Schoeberl?
Magliocco: Danny.
Davis: Okay.
Magliocco: Her and‐they seemed a little flirty. Um‐
Davis: Danny and Meagan?
Magliocco: Yeah, but outside of that, that was it.
Davis: Okay, okay.
Magliocco: That’s all I’ve picked up on, yeah.
Davis: That’s okay, that’s alright.
Magliocco: And then it kind of just‐
Davis: Winston Scott?
Magliocco: No.
Davis: He hasn’t been around? I know he’s new.
Magliocco: Yeah, he’s new too, no.
Davis: Joe Timson?
Magliocco: No, nothing.
Davis: No comments or anything like that, that you know of?
Magliocco: Zero.
Davis: Okay, thank you.
Patton: How about Captain Kaul?
Magliocco: Nothing.
Patton: He was over the shift.
Magliocco: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: This has been taking place a lot longer than he’s been Captain.
Magliocco: Mm‐hmm.
Davis: Right.
Magliocco: Yeah, no. He hasn’t said‐I haven’t heard [inaudible] from him, on it. I know he has‐I don’t know what she has confided in him. Um, I know there would be sometimes where I would be coming in and it looked like they were having a serious talk about finances, marriage things, stuff like that. Um, but, to my knowledge, he didn’t know any of this stuff. Because knowing him, this would have happened a lot sooner.
Davis: What time is your doctor’s appointment?
Magliocco: Uh, ten o’clock.
Davis: Where is it?
Magliocco: Um, can I just make a quick call and just push it‐
Davis: Where is it?
Magliocco: Murfreesboro.
Davis: [inaudible]
Patton: I‐I’m almost done.
Magliocco: Okay, yeah, we’re good. They’re‐they’re pretty lax, it’s just a Chiropractor appointment.
Patton: Okay. You recognize this book, right?
Magliocco: Yes, sir.
Patton: Can you tell me what it is?
Magliocco: It’s our employee handbook.
Patton: Do you have a copy?
Magliocco: I do.
Patton: You attended a meeting where you know what’s in it?
Magliocco: Yes.
Patton: And you signed a document that said that you would abide by it, correct?
Magliocco: Yes, sir.
Patton: Okay. Um‐
Davis: Thirteen
Patton: Thank you.
Davis: You know [inaudible] I studied.
Patton: Um so, on page 13 of the handbook which is in chapter 3, um, section 3.4 number C, talks about personal relationships. I’m just going to read you what the handbook says.
Magliocco: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: If a personal, romantic, or intimate relationship is established between two or more employees post‐hire, it is the responsibility and obligation of the employees involved to disclose the existence of that relationship to the supervisor, manager, City Administrator, or Human Resources.
Magliocco: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: When a conflict or potential conflict arises due to the relationship affecting employment, the City reserves the right to make any and all employment decisions in the best interest of the City. Okay,
do you understand what that means?
Magliocco: Uh like, supervisor subordinate type thing, would that be considered a conflict?
Patton: That would be considered a conflict. What else could be considered a conflict of what we’ve talked about?
Magliocco: Um, Officer safety, um just, any of that.
Patton: Yeah. Yeah, so, I‐you know, I’ve said this before here and in other investigations, I’ve said it in other places I’ve worked, what happens outside of work isn’t the concern of us.
Magliocco: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: You guys drinking, having parties, that is not my concern.
Magliocco: Yeah.
Patton: And I don’t have an opinion on that. However, when behavior outside of work affects work‐
Magliocco: Yeah.
Patton: Then we’re involved. Clearly outside work behavior is now affecting employment because we are sitting here, right?
Magliocco: Right.
Patton: If then‐then that’s why we have a situation, right?
Magliocco: Yes.
Patton: Um, and‐but again, if it was just outside of work stuff, you‐you can choose to make any decisions you want related to that.
Magliocco: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: When it affects work, and specifically your work as a Police Officer, I would say the same thing if you were a Fireman, like when you’re talking about um, direct citizen involvement, high level decision making, civil/criminal case decisions, your behavior and those that you work with, comes into question.
Magliocco: Yeah.
Patton: Okay, okay. Um, is there anything else that you have left out selectively or intentionally that you have not shared?
Magliocco: From?
Patton: On any other questions I have asked you.
Magliocco: Yeah, there was one other kind of self‐harm thing she shared.
Patton: Okay.
Magliocco: Um, it was kind of like one of those things where she said it, um, I’ve already been with my therapist, I’m good now. Um, but she said she um, unloaded her gun and just kind of put it to her head.
Patton: Her service weapon?
Magliocco: Um, I
Patton: Got it.
Magliocco: I really don’t know. She’s got a couple of guns, I know it was a handgun, and just pulled the trigger just to hear what the sound would sound like.
Patton: When did that take place?
Magliocco: Maybe a month and a half ago, two months ago, and I was like “Um, we need to talk to somebody.” And that’s when she said, “I’ve already gone to my therapist, it’s already been you know, resolved, they’ve already been working with me.”
Patton: And just for the sake of clarity, you didn’t share that with anyone until today?
Magliocco: Yeah, I didn’t even‐when I had that talk with Staats on Thursday, I said she’s made some questionable statements uh, I didn’t‐I didn’t tell him about the self‐harm, I didn’t tell him about the [inaudible] self‐harm. I didn’t tell anybody about that one though. Uh, the gun part because I was like, “I know that’s‐“
Davis: Can I ask one quick question just‐
Magliocco: Mm‐hmm, mm‐hmm.
Davis: Have you been sexually involved with Meagan on duty?
Magliocco: No, sir. I made a very strong point to make that clear to her. I said, “What we do‐“ and you can even go through my old text messages, I said, “What we do is strictly outside of work.” I said, “I’m not trying to lose my job.” And that’s that.
Patton: Okay. Um, I would like your City phone, please.
Magliocco: Yes, sir.
Patton: Um‐
Magliocco: You may have to charge it up.
Patton: Okay, and when are you on duty next?
Magliocco: Thursday.
Patton: Okay. I will leave this with uh somebody for‐to return to you.
Magliocco: Yeah, we’re good.
Patton: Um, and I‐we will let Amber know that you don’t have your City phone in case anyone is trying to reach you.
Magliocco: Yeah, you guys got my personal number anyways.
Patton: Okay, okay.
Davis: I’ll give that to you.
Patton: Okay. Um, I can’t impress upon you the need, when we open that door up, to not talk about this investigation with anybody.
Davis: Okay, I’m compelling you, you will not.
Magliocco: Yes, sir.
Davis: This is going to be hard. Did you tell anybody that you had to be here this morning?
Magliocco: Yes, sir.
Patton: Who did you tell?
Magliocco: Lugo, Liedtke, my wife.
Davis: Your wife is family though, that’s‐you’re supposed to do that.
Magliocco: Yeah. Um‐
Davis: You had to come here on your day off.
Magliocco: Right. Um, because we were moving yesterday when Amber called me and I was like “that can’t be good.” Um, type thing that she messaged me with it’s‐it’s not always a good‐not always a good thing, so I was you know, scrambling my head around, trying to think of, what it may be about and‐
Patton: Okay.
Magliocco: ‐bouncing ideas off each other. So, they knew I was here but that‐that’s it.
Patton: Okay.
Magliocco: Um, but I
Patton: They’re going to ask you what happened.
Magliocco: I know‐I‐I don’t know how much I’ve kind of screwed myself over from here but I’m really not trying to lose my job so‐
Davis: [inaudible] I’m sorry. One thing I do want to stress to you, we‐we’re never going to tell you not to talk to your wife.
Magliocco: Yep.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Davis: And we can’t tell your wife who she can and cannot talk to. But if you feel like what you said to your wife‐
Magliocco: Is going to go‐
Davis: ‐will‐will cause her to have a reaction‐
Magliocco: Mm‐hmm.
Davis: ‐and say “Oh, I’m going to come and get a piece of them” and things like that, think about that.
Magliocco: Mm‐hmm.
Davis: I’m not telling you not to talk to her but if you know that it has the potential to start‐
Magliocco: ‐bounce around, yeah.
Davis: ‐think about that, okay.
Magliocco: Yeah, I can assure you I’m not because I
Davis: Especially if it’s people that’s supposed to be close to each other.
Magliocco: Yeah.
Davis: You know.
Magliocco: I‐I know word travels here very quickly um and like I was just kind of saying before, I‐I don’t know the City violations and stuff like that, that I haven’t’ done, not shared certain things, and you know where I fall as far as hot water goes, but I’m not trying to get myself in anymore hot water.
Patton: Um, I believe you’ve been honest and I appreciate that. Um, not being honest uh is a‐
Magliocco: A one‐way street.
Patton: ‐is a one‐way street, right.
Magliocco: Mm‐hmm, and‐I [inaudible] the saying “I love you, but‐or I like you, but I love me.” Like, I really, really like what I do and I don’t want to‐
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Magliocco: ‐don’t want to‐
Davis: I appreciate your honesty, it’s hard.
Magliocco: It is, it really is.
Patton: Yep. Um, I am almost guaranteed there will be follow‐up conversations with you.
Magliocco: Yes.
Patton: Um, that won’t happen until the investigation is complete.
Magliocco: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: Um, and I can’t give you a timeline on that‐
Magliocco: That was my next question.
Patton: So, unfortunately, you’re going to have to sit in the uncomfortableness of “I don’t know what’s happening” until we’re done.
Magliocco: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: Um, and that would include not talking about this investigation and obviously Chief said that he compels you, he tells you not to do it, that’s an order, so, you‐if you violate that, that will be something that is not handled by me.
Magliocco: Yeah.
Patton: Um, any questions on anything?
Magliocco: No, I mean, I‐I‐nothing that you can answer right now, probably.
Davis: And I‐I’ll say this, if you have any questions, I’m‐I’m waiving your chain of command, you come straight to Andrew.
Magliocco: Okay.
Davis: If you have any questions about this I‐you don’t have to come to me, you don’t have to come to Staats or Bob, anybody. Just come straight to this guy.
Magliocco: Mm‐hmm, okay. Um, yeah.
Davis: And if he’s not available and you just need to ask a question, you can come to me, ask the question and I’ll get it to him.
Patton: Mm‐hmm, mm‐hmm.
Davis: Alright?
Magliocco: And is that um, just kind of quickly back pedaling, is um, follow‐up conversations outside of the investigation as far as like, I don’t know like punishments for um, like, City policy violations, that type of thing or…?
Patton: Yeah, I mean, I think follow‐ups can be um, I need to verify some new information that I’ve received and I’m going to come to you and ask you for details that you may have not told me um and then obviously when the investigation is done, we’ll have to make some decisions on what we’ve learned.
Magliocco: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: Um, and‐and there will be follow‐up conversations related to that line of you know, corrective action. I‐I‐I don’t know yet where we’ll fall on that.
Magliocco: Am I able to ask are we kind of in the middle, towards the end, in the beginning? No?
Patton: It’s ongoing.
Magliocco: Ongoing, okay. I’m just trying to‐
Patton: I‐I shared with you a glimpse, right. I said‐
Magliocco: This information has already been‐
Patton: I already have the information you’ve shared with me.
Magliocco: Yeah.
Patton: So, that tells you that we’ve had other conversations.
Magliocco: Yeah, yeah. Fair enough. I think I’m good.
Patton: Okay, thank you for coming in.
Magliocco: Yeah.
Patton: You will get compensated for your time.
Magliocco: Okay.
Patton: Okay.
Davis: Put it on your time sheet, just put um “Admin.”
Magliocco: Okay.
Davis: Yeah, just put admin.
Patton: Okay, yep. Um, and you know we paged you to come in so you know, just put two hours down, that covers the hour that we’ve been together plus some transportation time, okay? Um and if‐if you have questions, contact me. If people start talking with you about the specifics of what I’ve asked you about‐
Magliocco: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: ‐come directly to me.
Magliocco: Now‐
Patton: ‐and that sounds like “Hey, Andrew. Chief Davis just asked me specific questions about what you asked me about.” I need to know that, right. Obviously, it’s not going to be him, but you know.
Magliocco: I can‐do you guys have any tips? This is not my first investigation but the other ones haven’t been nearly as serious. Um, I just‐kind of how to deflect?
Davis: How to what?
Magliocco: Like deflect, like how to answer‐
Patton: How to‐how to answer the question of what‐what‐how did you get called to HR.
Magliocco: Just‐yeah, like how did the meeting go, I mean, do you, my thought was going to be oh, we’re just going over 401 stuff and I had made some boo‐boos‐I don’t know.
Patton: Did you tell people you were coming to talk to HR or coming to talk to Chief?
Magliocco: Chief. I didn’t know I was in HR until this morning. So‐
Patton: I‐I don’t‐
Davis: So, just say “he’s just having his one on one meetings.”
Magliocco: Okay, that works.
Davis: So, yeah just say, because I do want them, I just did a one on one with [inaudible]
Patton: Okay.
Davis: So, it’s very [inaudible]
Magliocco: Very good.
Davis: Just leave it at that. He’s probably going to get around to everybody so, just.
Patton: Okay?
Magliocco: I’m good.
Patton: Alright. Head back safely
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HR Interview of Sergeant Lewis Powell (214)
Patton: Alright, so, we’ve asked you to come in because we’re in the middle of an investigation.
Powell: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: And um, I think you may have some information that could be helpful. Um, so um, I wanted to just get some time and talk about it. Um, before I start my questions I’m going to have Chief go over his form with you.
Davis: Lewis, you’re familiar with Garrity, correct?
Powell: Mm‐hmm.
Davis: Do you need me to read this, do you want to take an opportunity to read that?
Powell: No, I’m familiar with it.
Davis: Okay, alright. If you want to sing whenever you’re ready, just sign.
Powell: Do I sign there?
Patton: The bottom, LPD, yep.
Davis: [inaudible]
Patton: No, I don’t mind. Um so, two things I always tell people when we start these, number one is that,um obviously you know, any questions that I ask, I need you to answer things as honestly as you can.
Powell: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: Obviously, you have an obligation as a Police Officer to do the same. Um, the things that we talk about today um will be confidential.
Powell: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: Um, however, while the case is open I can hold that confidentiality. When the investigation is complete, obviously, as a municipality we are subject to open records. So, I always like to tell people and explain, everything is confidential uh, until we’re completed and at that point if somebody does an open record request, it is discoverable.
Powell: Okay.
Patton: Okay. Um, and number two everybody should know that we don’t tolerate any kind of retaliation. So, no one’s allowed to retaliate against you for participating in this conversation. You’re not allowed to retaliate against anybody else who might participate in a similar conversation. And if you ever feel like that’s happening, I want you to come to me directly so I can look into those concerns.
Powell: Right.
Patton: Okay. Um, so, I’m doing an investigation into the environment and culture of second shift.
Powell: Okay.
Patton: At LPD.
Powell: Okay.
Patton: So, my first question to you is, how would you describe the culture within the second shift members at the Police Department? What‐what words would you use to describe?
Powell: Well when they talk to me, it kind of seems like people are just nitpicky and back and forth a lot.
Patton: Okay.
Powell: Um, I kind of feel like it’s not much structure.
Patton: Okay.
Powell: You know, because they kind of‐kind of run wild and then stuff like that because sometimes when I supervise, they do certain things and I check in on the radios and say “we’re not doing this, don’t do that, zone four, why you coming all the way to zone one?”
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Powell: Just little stuff like that, I think that should be taken care of, you know.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Powell: Like during the shift. Um, a couple of Officers kind of mouth off to certain younger Officers.
Patton: Younger Officers?
Powell: Yeah, yeah, you know just like, uh, I had uh Joe Timson one time uh blew up on Hall about a, it was a stolen motorcycle that came through, okay. So, [inaudible] motorcycle, you need to do a high risk stop, which means either put your‐have your gun in low ready, loud verbal commands. She walked up to the car‐to the motorcycle, which was‐she probably shouldn’t have did that but she’s new. He just started yelling “What the f? [inaudible] and I get there and I’m like “Calm down, calm down.” So, she came to me later that day and basically said‐starts crying, saying uh “I don’t like when he talked to me like that. He shouldn’t be talking to me like that.”
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Powell: You know, and I said “I agree. I’m going to deal with it.” So, I dealt with it. You know it kind of seemed like Joe and Little Powell is kind of like the ones that kind of‐
Davis: Joe and who?
Powell: Little Powell, Nickalai Powell. Not‐not‐I‐I think they get‐I think they trying to do things the right way but it’s just how they present it.
Patton: Mm‐hm.
Powell: Um, uh, sometimes the supervisor’s way too friendly, I think.
Patton: What do you mean by that?
Powell: Just like, too playful.
Patton: Okay, and which supervisor are you talking about?
Powell: Mainly like, Staats.
Patton: Staats.
Powell: Just like‐like, way too playful. You know, I heard a running joke in the hallway about somebody tried to unlock‐unlock somebody car and put fart spray in it, you know. And I just heard when they was just walking through, because a lot of the times when I come around they just‐
Davis: Who was trying to do that? Staats was?
Powell: I‐I’m assuming yes, but they wasn’t really talking to me so, I was just walking through the hallway.
Patton: And did you say, “I left someone in the car” like a prisoner?
Powell: No, no, no, like they go and slim jim a car and put fart spray in it.
Davis: It’s when they slim jim a car and put fart spray‐
Patton: Oh, oh, oh, so, when the person goes to, okay.
Powell: Which I think it’s just, I‐I don’t run that shit back there, like I’m cool with the guys, I talk to them, but I want you to do your business, you know. There’s always time to play, but it just seems like it’s just always‐
Patton: Yeah.
Powell: ‐like playing and nitpicking each other and you know. And like the supervisor not checking it.
Patton: Okay. So, following up on that, my question would be, what information do you have about Officers that get together from this shift, outside of work? And the follow‐up question would be, do you have any information about supervisors that participate in any of those kind of hang outs?
Powell: Um, I know Pmag‐Magli‐Magliocco.
Patton: Okay.
Powell: Him and I know Hall hang out. Uh, I know Larry had a football game, something going on, Hall and a whole bunch of people went over there. Uh, somebody else. I don’t know about too many people hanging out because I don’t‐don’t really participate in that.
Patton: Okay.
Powell: But uh, I know as far as supervisors, I don’t know, not sure.
Patton: Okay.
Powell: If I was a betting man, I would say Staats probably hang out with a lot of them but.
Patton: You don’t know that?
Powell: I‐I don’t know, he likes to hang out with a lot of‐a lot of people.
Patton: Okay, okay.
Powell: And I don’t, you know.
Patton: Um, are you aware of anybody on the shift that has relationships uh with each other within the shift? Intimate relationships?
Powell: Just‐just a rumor.
Patton: Okay. What have you heard?
Powell: Just like, Pmag maybe and Hall, maybe they in an open marriage‐
Patton: Okay.
Powell: ‐and kind of hang out. I‐I don’t‐I try my best to stay out of that crap. Um, that’s the only rumor I’ve heard, especially with second shift.
Patton: When did you hear that?
Powell: That’s been going on for a while. You know, that rumor started six, seven months ago, I guess.
Patton: Okay.
Powell: They saw them on Facebook hanging out, then a rumor started, and everybody knows they’re close, they’re cool, but we don’t know, maybe they’re just friends.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Powell: You know, but uh.
Patton: Okay. Anybody else that you’ve heard of?
Powell: Mm, second shift?
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Powell: No.
Patton: Okay. Do you have any information about a second shift hot tub party?
Powell: No.
Patton: Like a “girls gone wild” kind of hot tub party?
Powell: I ain’t heard that, uh‐uh.
Patton: Nothing, no one’s been talking about that?
Powell: Not to me.
Patton: Okay, okay.
Powell: There’s only like one female on second shift, so, [inaudible] unless the other girls are hanging out, so, I don’t‐I don’t know.
Patton: Okay. Nothing? Like I say it and you’re like “I’ve got no‐no information.”
Powell: Now I know the guys had a day out, I heard a rumor the second shift guys wanted a day out and I think Hall wanted to show up and they were like “Nah, it’s only guys.” And I think she may have just shown up.
Patton: Where‐where was that at?
Powell: I‐I don’t know, they don’t really talk to me.
Patton: Okay.
Powell: I just hear stuff from word of mouth.
Patton: Okay.
Powell: You know.
Patton: Okay. So, when it comes to relationships on the shift, things that happened outside of work is none of my business.
Powell: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: Our handbook specifically talks about um the fact that when there are relationships within the department that become intimate, personal, anything like that, that has‐could affect work‐
Powell: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: ‐then it becomes a city issue. Especially, if the people have not disclosed the relationship, right.
Powell: Okay.
Patton: So, um like, people hanging out, a football game, you said Magliocco and Hall hang out, I have no issues with that.
Powell: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: The investigation that I’m working on is much more serious.
Powell: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: Okay, and it involves intimate relationships between Officers on second shift, including while on duty. Do you have any information about Officers that have engaged in intimate sexual relationships, with each other, while on duty?
Powell: I have no idea.
Patton: Okay. So, I’m going to ask you a very specific question, okay.
Powell: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: The investigation that we have been conducting, the reason we are talking with you is that your name has come up as somebody who is involved in a sexual relationship with Meagan Hall.
Powell: Okay.
Patton: Are you involved in a sexual relationship with Meagan Hall?
Powell: No.
Patton: Have you ever been involved with‐with a relationship with Meagan Hall?
Powell: No.
Patton: Have you ever participated in any kind of one‐off sexual encounter with Meagan Hall?
Powell: What do you mean “one‐off?”
Patton: At the‐just a one time thing‐
Davis: A hook up.
Patton: ‐like a hook up at the Police substation?
Powell: Negative.
Patton: While on duty?
Powell: No.
Patton: Any idea why the investigation would have discovered people who say it has happened? Any indication why we would be sitting here having this conversation?
Powell: I guess because she talks to me, asks me questions, training topics, she did some ju‐jitsu.
Patton: Okay. But specifically‐I’m‐what I’m trying to understand, and I know you know, I have‐I’ve had conversations before we’ve talked to you, right.
Powell: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: So, I have information that you don’t have and I’m just trying to understand. But the piece of the puzzle I don’t understand yet is why have people told me that you and her have hooked up at the substation, while on duty, and I’m trying to understand why would they say that if that hasn’t happened? What’s the motive?
Powell: I don’t know, I don’t know.
Patton: Okay.
Powell: She’s um, probably she’s had‐pardon me, she’s came to the substation.
Patton: Okay.
Powell: But it’s cameras all‐all around that place.
Patton: Okay.
Powell: And I was helping her write‐write a letter or showing her this, showing her that, but it’s like a few times.
Patton: Okay.
Davis: So, you’re saying that you would see, if I pull footage from the camera out there, I would see your car there, her car there?
Powell: Yeah.
Davis: Okay. Would that camera show‐would that camera show you and her going inside together?
Powell: Yeah, while I was in there, yeah. Other Officers came out there too, so.
Patton: At the same time you were there?
Powell: Well, yeah, off and on.
Patton: Okay.
Davis: Every time that you and her were out there, another Officer came‐
Powell: No, not every time, I’m saying like on different occasions.
Davis: Okay.
Patton: Um, do you personally have any information or knowledge, specific or rumor, of any relationships that she is conducting right now, of a sexual nature within the department?
Powell: Uh, just‐just rumor.
Patton: Okay, what have you heard?
Powell: I heard a rumor about maybe Shields.
Patton: Shields? What about‐what about Shields?
Powell: Uh, just like maybe they hooked up or‐a rumor.
Patton: Who‐who told you that?
Powell: Uh, I believe [inaudible] no, I believe Ty told me. I’ve even also heard a rumor about them, about Ty‐
Patton: About Ty?
Powell: Yeah.
Patton: Who told you that?
Powell: I don’t remember, maybe just, no, maybe, hold on. I’m trying to remember. [inaudible] with Dutton and I, it’s been a while like I don’t.
Patton: Okay.
Davis: What‐what type of conversations are taking place where these rumors did?
Powell: Because everybody know that‐that she is, hm, what’s a better word? She’s a nympho, okay. Every‐everybody knows, okay. It’s just‐the conversations ran out there that she’s had a whole bunch of multiple partners, you know. It’s just‐it’s just a ton of rumors, speculation.
Patton: Okay.
Davis: So, maybe she doesn’t mean Ty.
Powell: I‐I’ve also heard Larry, maybe. Uh‐
Patton: Who told you Larry?
Powell: I‐I believe him, he‐he told me that they hung out, so. Like, off duty.
Patton: And by hung out, you mean?
Powell: I guess at their house.
Patton: But do‐are you suggesting that you took that to be something physical?
Powell: If somebody going to hang out at some‐somebody’s house [inaudible]
Patton: Okay.
Davis: And this is outside of the party he hosted? The football party.
Powell: Oh, yes.
Patton: Um, so, you got a call from Meagan last week, correct? On Thursday?
Powell: Last Thursday, mm‐hmm.
Patton: What did she tell you on that phone call?
Powell: Basically she said “I’m calling out.” Because I was the supervisor that day, so, I’m not sure if she called Bob first or whatever. I was supervisor that day because Staats was out.
Patton: Okay.
Powell: I said, “alright” and she said “I may have to take off the rest of the week.” I said, “Why are you taking off the rest of the week?” I said, “After two days, I kind of need to know something.” She was like, “Uh, I got to go to a doctor.” So, [inaudible] doctor, “Yeah, I just got some stuff I’ve got to deal with.” I said, “Well, if it’s going to be after the second day, you need to call Staats who would be here on Friday, and let him know whatever the case is.”
Patton: Okay, and that was the whole extent of the conversation? There was nothing else said?
Powell: Yeah, she had to go to the doctor.
Patton: Okay. Um, what have you heard since that‐since‐or have you spoken to her at all after Thursday?
Powell: No, no.
Patton: Not at all?
Powell: Uh‐uh.
Patton: And what have you heard?
Powell: Heard she probably was in the mental hospital, the um‐
Patton: And who‐who did you hear that from?
Powell: Uh, I think Chiefs may have told me‐
Patton: Okay.
Powell: ‐during our‐our super‐meeting.
Patton: Okay.
Powell: Um, I had a‐I had a trooper call me and ask me why did her husband quit. I said, “I don’t know, he told me that a uh rumor is out that his wife was in the hospital” or something like that and she may have cut her wrists or something like that.
Patton: When did that phone call come in to you?
Powell: I think it was Saturday.
Patton: And the THP trooper told you?
Powell: He just asking. Yeah, he told me that‐he said
Patton: ‐the about her cutting her wrists, the THP trooper?
Powell: Apparently his roommate‐the‐I think Jed’s roommates mentioned something about uh, um, Jed, who, her husband, told the roommates that she was in the hospital because she was like trying to cut her wrists.
Patton: Okay.
Powell: So‐
Davis: Jed told his roommate?
Powell: Inside the academy.
Davis: And how did that get to the trooper?
Powell: This was a [inaudible] class so, this trooper knows, knew his roommates.
Davis: And the trooper told you.
Patton: And the trooper told you.
Powell: Well he, gave me the information.
Patton: Okay. Have you heard that same information from anybody inside LPD?
Powell: No, kind of hush hush around.
Patton: Okay. Have you talked to Meagan today?
Powell: Nope.
Patton: Have you texted with her at all today? Um, did you‐after she called you on Thursday, who did you talk to next about that phone call?
Powell: I didn’t‐well, I didn’t know she was going to the mental hospital so I didn’t talk to nobody.
Patton: Okay.
Powell: Because she said she was going to the doctor.
Patton: Okay. I’m‐I’m under the impression she was told by you to call another supervisor.
Powell: Negative.
Patton: Because if she would have told me that the first phone‐the first person I’d been on the phone with was Chief.
Powell: Okay.
Patton: Do you have any information that’s different than that? My understanding was that she was told to call somebody else.
Davis: That’s what I was told, so. Um, just telling you what was told to me, was you told her “you need to call somebody higher up than me.” What you supposedly said.
Powell: No.
Davis: I‐I
Powell: I would have took care of that as supervisor, I would have‐I would have [inaudible] called down.
Davis: Yeah.
Patton: Okay, and then the two of you talked on Thursday, correct?
Davis: I called him in based upon the conversation that we had when we were notified about‐about
Meagan and uh, that’s when it was said that you were the first telephone call that she had made and you quickly got on the phone and said “You need to call somebody higher up.”
Powell: Negative. Like I said, I would have took care of it myself.
Davis: And based upon‐based upon that, I called you in and was like “Hey, tell me about the telephone call.”
Powell: Mm‐hmm, right.
Davis: And you told me exactly what you just said here.
Patton: Do you have any knowledge of um, naked photos of Meagan that have been sent to Officers?
Powell: Uh‐uh.
Patton: Do you have any negative‐any naked photos of Meagan?
Powell: No, my wife goes through my phone.
Patton: Okay. And you don’t know about anybody‐you haven’t heard anybody else talk about that?
Powell: Um, naked photos?
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Powell: No.
Patton: Okay. So, I just want to make sure I’m tracking on the information. You do tell me that you’ve been to the substation with Meagan, just the two of you, inside. But, according to you, you’re saying nothing ever happened between the two of you.
Powell: No, just professional business.
Patton: Okay. Well, here’s the situation we’re in. Um, the investigation up to this conversation has not supported that line of thinking. Um, I tend, as an investigator to be very open, all the way through. However, there are moments where you have to make some decisions um in the investigation. Um, do you have any‐before I continue, do you have any other questions that I didn’t touch on?
Davis: No, I think you’re good.
Patton: Okay. Um so, obviously this is a pretty significant allegation. Um, and it’s‐it’s a pretty significant concern that I’m in the middle of.
Powell: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: Um, based on what I have learned so far that I’ve shared with Chief and I’ve shared with the City Administrator. Um, we are going to make a move today to suspend you with pay um, it’s‐it’s an administrative leave pending the investigation. Um, we have enough testimony at this point that would bring us to some concern that I don’t want there to be a continued risk on shift, if indeed this proves to be a true allegation. I understand you’re saying it didn’t happen. Um, but the investigation is not complete and the information that led us up to this point contradicts what you said. Um, so, today we’re going to ask you to go home. Um, again, there’s no financial impact on this leave, it is an administrative leave. That is how it will be communicated to finance as well. Um so, you will not be at work until the investigation is complete. Um, you will still be paid forty hours a week and you will still earn your time and all that other things that go through. Um, and you will still have the responsibility of taking care of your K9 who will stay in your possession. Um, however, we’re going to ask you to not return to work until the investigation is complete and then also we’re going to ask you to have no communication with any member of the LaVergne Police Department during the investigation except for Chief Davis. Um, any questions on any of that?
Powell: I just don’t understand like, like some allegations, so.
Patton: Mm‐hmm. Do you want to help add anything that would help with some understanding at all or?
Davis: Um, you still get your K9 maintenance pay as well, too.
Powell: Mm‐hmm.
Davis: Because you have to take care of [inaudible] while‐while he’s with you. Um, we’ve been through this before, with second shift before and it feels like a déjà vu‐I wasn’t the Chief then, but I‐caught the last end of it because I had to finish a [inaudible] investigation. But it feels like a big déjà vu and again, I’m just like Andrew. When it comes to anything off work, no judgement zone, because I don’t care.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Davis: Only thing I care about is when it starts affecting what happens here at work. Um, as he said you know, there is information that doesn’t support what you said but that’s why we‐but it’s serious enough we need to act on something today. And uh, until we can get to the bottom of it, uh. You’re still under Garrity. I’m telling you not to talk to anyone. Um, we’re nowhere done, it’s not going to be done by the end of the week.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Davis: Um, it’s going to take some time on this because this is serious. Um, but we’ll get through it. We’ll get through it.
Powell: I don’t understand who’s saying I’m doing something on duty at the substation. If I was having sex with her, I’d be way smarter than that. You know.
Davis: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: I‐I would‐I was surprised by the allegation. However, it’s been supported by other people. And that’s what I’m trying‐
Powell: At the substation, really?
Patton: That’s what I’m trying‐that’s what I’m trying to‐you going to‐
Davis: [inaudible]
Patton: You going to talk to whoever’s there? I don’t even [inaudible]
Davis: Yeah, I will.
Patton: Yeah, okay.
Powell: At‐at the substation, really?
Patton: That’s what‐that’s been‐
Powell: The substation.
Patton: I know.
Powell: If all the stations. I could easily check 10‐7 and go somewhere and have intercourse if I was doing it.
Patton: Mm‐hmm, mm‐hmm.
Powell: So, there’s hotels. We both work second shift so, I would just go get a hotel in the morning.
Patton: I know, and I understand that it doesn’t make sense. However, because the‐because the allegation has been made and has been supported by other interviews, um, it’s not‐it is not abnormal for these investigations to resolve and everybody comes back. It’s also not abnormal for these investigations to prove that it happened and people still deny it.
Powell: In the substation, okay.
Davis: Let me ask you this, Lewis. If I can. Is there any reason why anybody would make those allegations, false allegations, against you?
Powell: I don’t know. Maybe it’s all‐
Davis: Are you beefing with anybody on the shift or anything?
Powell: No, maybe they saw us at the substation, you know. Because I don’t turn my MBT off, so it’s on. You know, and she likes to understand so, I helped her train and felony stops, do this, do that, you know. Because she struggled, and Officer safety issues. That’s one of my‐that’s one of my power points, that’s my‐that’s my power, I’m a SWAT guy.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Powell: So, I do not understand that.
Davis: There’s no, no bad blood or anything just?
Powell: As far as I know, I don’t know, it sound like somebody trying to‐trying to scalp me. You know.
Patton: Well, that’s why I asked the question, you know, like help me understand why this is being said because‐
Powell: But the substation, [inaudible] if I wanted to have sexual intercourse with an Officer. Especially if she works my shift. I wouldn’t do it on duty, I’d do it‐get a hotel in the morning, you know. Go to somebody’s house, you know, it’s off duty.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Powell: You know, why would I just go to the substation, out of all places. Out of all the places with a camera, the substation.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Powell: You know, just because they see two Officers out there at the substation I don’t understand, why you‐why they try to scalp me.
Patton: Mm‐hmm. What if it was just, what if it was at the PD and we was just by ourselves?
Davis: We got cameras here for it so, that’s‐that’s not‐
Powell: Yeah, that’s what I’m saying.
Davis: ‐substation has cameras, they have external ones, they’re not inside. So
Patton: And I‐I would say this, just‐I don’t know what‐what it’s worth but, I don’t recommend these kind of moves unless I have enough to support the move, right. So, this isn’t‐this decision is not just based on one person saying “Hey, I think this is happening.” Unfortunately, it’s no that situation. Um, so what what I need to figure out, and this will be additional conversations, is why do you tell me one thing and why do multiple other people tell me other things? That’s what I got to sort out. I got to try to figure out where’s the truth in all of this.
Powell: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: Um, and that’s‐that’s the course we’re on.
Powell: Unless I came out the substation with my pants down and my private exposed, I just don’t know‐ I don’t know who would say that. But‐
Patton: Why‐why‐
Davis: Let me give you some food for thought.
Powell: Mm‐hmm.
Davis: [inaudible] Amber comes into my office, the door don’t shut.
Powell: Mm‐hmm.
Davis: So, if Amber did ever say [inaudible]
Powell: Yeah.
Davis: If they want to‐they both want to come talk to me, which they have, they come in there and they’ve shut the door when there’s two females in there‐
Powell: Mm‐hmm.
Davis: ‐and they talk to me, I don’t shut the door with a female in the room. If anything it will be cracked, but it won’t be shut. Because that’s where‐so, looking at this situation, because of the perception, right? Just like you said “just because they see us together” If they see Doc Campbell or Amber or Leah, anybody, come to my office, well Leah would probably get that it’s HR related but a female, period, then my door shuts. You can think anything, right? So, yeah. That’s just food for thought. But like Andrew said, because of the allegations we have to do what we’re doing right now. Um, it’s not saying that you did anything wrong, it’s not saying that you didn’t do anything wrong. It’s just saying until we get to the bottom of this, this is our best course of action.
Powell: How am I going to explain this to my wife? I’ve got allegations that I’m having sex with some Officer.
Davis: You‐you tell your wife whatever you need to tell your wife, I’m not going to get into that part of it but um, I know it’s probably going to be a conversation. But that’s something that you have to decide. I’m not at liberty, even if she calls up here because of some investigation, I’m not at liberty to talk about it, he’s not at liberty to talk about it, you’re not at liberty to talk about it, nobody’s at liberty to talk about it. So, it won’t do her any good to try to [inaudible] Like you said at the beginning, at the end of this it becomes something to do with records. [inaudible]
Powell: [inaudible] knew about it then, people are saying the substation, of all the places, the substation.
Patton: That’s‐that’s what the report is.
Powell: Yeah. Of all the places.
Davis: One way that you could help [inaudible] this investigation is for somebody else to come in here and “Yeah, I talked to Lewis yesterday and he said he knew” or somebody said something about the investigation.
Patton: That‐that would be problematic if you talk to people. Once you leave here, if you talk to people.
Powell: No, yeah, yeah. No.
Patton: Yeah, yeah.
Powell: I wonder if I just tell my guys I’m taking‐
Davis: You’re taking admin.
Patton: Yep.
Davis: Tell your guys that.
Patton: This is a very small circle of people that know what we’re doing. Um, very small and that would be Chief’s responsibility to communicate that. Um, yep today you just‐you’re going to, you’re going to head home and then one of us will call you when this investigation is done and ready for a follow‐up.
Powell: It’s going to be a fight between me and my wife, I’ll get prepared for that.
Davis: Is that ready?
Powell: Yeah.
Patton: I think that’s all I have for today.
Interview of Lieutenant David Durham (153)
Patton: So, we are conducting an investigation.
Durham: Okay.
Patton: Of course, your name has come up during the course of the investigation. Um so, we wanted an opportunity to‐to talk with you about some things.
Durham: Okay.
Patton: Um, before I go into questions and stuff I’ll let‐Chief, do the form that you sent us.
Davis: I‐I‐this needs no explanation for you, excuse me.
Durham: Yes, sir.
Davis: [inaudible]
Patton: Yeah, yeah. It’s incredibly expensive but insurance doesn’t cover it. It only covers [inaudible].
Davis: So, I wonder if I should put that as a [inaudible].
Patton: She said, uh Phillis said put it to your K9 budget. Um so, I always say two things, and even you do investigations all the time so you know these two things as well.
Durham: Yeah.
Patton: But um, first, uh the conversation will be serious and it will be confidential. Um, however, when the investigation is complete I can’t protect confidentiality because we’re obviously a Municipality and [inaudible] open records, as you know.
Durham: Yeah. Yes, sir.
Patton: Second, um we don’t tolerate retaliation so, no one’s allowed to retaliate against you for participating in this conversation. You’re obviously not allowed to retaliate against anybody else for participating in a similar conversation. If you ever feel like that’s happening I want you to come talk with
me, okay?
Durham: Yes, sir.
Patton: Um so, I’ve been conducting and interview for a little bit. So, I’ve got a bunch of information and what I would like to do, David, is ask you questions, some of them may seem vague.
Durham: Okay.
Patton: If you have information obviously, I’d like you to tell me the truth. You’re under obligation to tell me tell me the truth.
Durham: Correct.
Patton: Um, with any information that you may have heard or that you know firsthand. Um, I probably won’t use names if you know names of people I’m talking about I’d like you to use them because I use that as just a way to confirm‐
Durham: Okay.
Patton: ‐information I have. Okay. Um so, I’m working on an investigation about culture on second shift patrol.
Durham: Okay.
Patton: Okay. How would you describe the culture of second shift patrol?
Durham: I really don’t pay attention to what goes on, on second shift.
Patton: Okay.
Durham: Um, I‐I feel like they’re a pretty close‐knit group from what I see.
Patton: Okay. Do you think, when you say close‐knit, is that like “I got your back” close‐knit or inappropriate close‐knit?
Durham: Yeah‐no‐no, like got your back kind of thing.
Patton: Okay. Um, are you‐you were at the last Leadership Day, correct?
Durham: Yes, sir.
Patton: So, you heard an Officer share her story‐
Durham: Correct.
Patton: ‐about struggling with some mental health issues. Are you aware of any other Officer who is currently or has expressed um concern to anybody or you’ve heard rumors of anybody that may have an issue with suicidal thoughts, tendencies, anything like that?
Durham: I’ve heard Meagan Hall.
Patton: Okay. Who did you hear that from?
Durham: Um, well I kind of assumed it when Chief was discussing a video as a cry out for help “was a car wreck a cry out for help?” and I kind of put two and two together. And I happened to be in Chief’s um Administrative Assistant’s‐or Executive Assistant’s office and then she made a comment about “it sure is bad about Meagan Hall” and I said “I really don’t know what’s going on.” And then she said “she made a suicidal thing” and just left it as that.
Patton: When was that conversation with‐with Amber? Amber’s who you’re talking about, right?
Durham: Yeah. She mentioned something it was the day after that you played the video. So, I don’t know what day it was, Chief.
Davis: Friday maybe?
Durham: Um it was‐yeah, because I picked up the‐a paperwork that will [inaudible]. So, it was maybe
Monday? Possibly.
Patton: Okay. Um, outside of the conversation with Chief and with Amber has that been a topic among the folks that you work with in your building or have you been a part of any conversations where you’ve heard people talking about that?
Durham: Um‐just‐just um I talked to Captain Kaul yesterday and I‐I knew something was going on and I usually am in the know about things and it‐it’s like woah, what’s going on, you know. Oh, sorry. Um, and Captain Kaul said um‐he didn’t‐he said “Everything’s good but all of second shift knows about it.” He really didn’t mention what was going on‐
Patton: Okay.
Durham: ‐per se about her but‐
Davis: He said all of second shift knew?
Durham: Um‐um yeah, like it was like “second shift knew what was going on.”
Davis: Okay.
Durham: I will say that it was like “second shift knows what’s going on.” Um, may have mentioned something to that something was going on with Meagan, I don’t know if I was specific or not, that she was like suicidal, um to Fracker and maybe Bobby that something was going on with her. But I don’t remember saying like “suicidal” or anything of that nature.
Patton: Okay. Do you have any information about intimate and or sexual relationships among Officers on second shift?
Durham: I do not. Excuse me.
Davis: Now, not the‐I know you was [inaudible]
Durham: Yeah, I was going to say um‐
Patton: Yeah.
Durham: ‐current‐
Patton: Current time, yeah.
Durham: ‐current time, I don’t really keep up with what they do.
Patton: Okay.
Durham: Um, as far as sexual relationships between‐
Patton: And you’ve not heard any rumors, not anybody talking?
Durham: I’m guessing this is in regards to Meagan, so‐
Patton: Why would you
Durham: ‐I’m trying to put two and two together because of what happened‐
Patton: ‐why would you make that assumption? Just because I asked about her?
Durham: I mean um, I haven’t heard of anybody specifically that she is.
Patton: Okay. Are you familiar with uh second shift, they’ll get together and hang out outside of work?
Durham: Yes.
Patton: Okay. Are you a part of any of that?
Durham: Um, I went to uh um Eric Staats’ uh house boat on Center Hill Lake, Memorial Day.
Patton: Okay. Tell me about that experience.
Durham: Um, he invited my family so, it was my wife, uh my two daughters um and my daughter‐my oldest daughter’s friend and um we all stayed the weekend there‐
Patton: Who else was there?
Durham: So, when I got there, I think it was on a Saturday, it was just my family. Um, hung out with Staats and Brian, his significant other, and the next day um, Meagan and um Magliocco showed up. I had‐
Davis: You said the next day?
Durham: I want to say like the next day.
Davis: Okay.
Durham: Um, that was yeah, it was like the next day. Um, she was there when I got up out of bed, she was having breakfast or sitting down with everybody.
Patton: Okay.
Davis: So, y’all stayed on the boat?
Durham: Yeah, we stayed‐yeah, we stayed the weekend, my whole family did.
Davis: Okay.
Patton: Um, what was that experience like for you to wake up and come up and there was an Officer on the boat?
Durham: I did not know and then Magliocco showed up shortly after that. And I was like, I don’t‐yeah.
Patton: Was it just‐
Durham: I wasn’t‐I wasn’t expecting those two to show up at the lake.
Patton: Was it just Meagan and Magliocco? There was no one else with them?
Durham: Um, at some point, Saturday night or Sunday night‐wait no, it would have been Sunday night, his fiancé maybe his wife, showed up.
Patton: Okay.
Durham: And she stayed possibly, maybe an hour or two.
Patton: Did uh Magliocco and Meagan stay the night on the boat?
Durham: Yeah, at least that would have been Sunday night into Monday.
Davis: With Monday being Memorial Day?
Durham: Right.
Patton: Um‐
Durham: Correct. Sorry.
Patton: ‐what were the sleeping arrangements on the boat?
Durham: Um, well there was a lot of people there but it’s a huge house boat. So, Brian and his significant other‐I mean, Eric Staats and his significant other, my oldest daughter and her friend was in a room, me, my wife and my youngest daughter slept in another bedroom, um, Hall slept in another bedroom and then um Magliocco, I think on the couch?
Patton: Okay.
Durham: In the living room area.
Patton: Okay. Did you ever see them‐the two of them together on the boat in a way that would make you think there was something else happening?
Durham: Well, at‐at first, when I saw them at some point in time I remember Eric saying “I think they’re in the bathroom together.” And then‐
Patton: What did you think about that?
Durham: And‐well, let me continue and‐so, I was like “What? They don’t need to be doing that.” But then Eric said “Oh, she was in the bathroom by herself.” So, I don’t‐I didn’t go check on them to see what they were doing. I was either on the top deck at the time I‐yeah, I think I was on the top deck so, I didn’t go into the bathroom or anything to double check that.
Patton: Okay. So, this is probably a good point to say, you know, what happens with you, or Chief, or myself, or any other employee, outside of work is not my concern.
Durham: Yep.
Patton: My concern is when what happens outside starts to affect work inside.
Durham: Correct.
Patton: Then we get into issues, right?
Durham: Yeah.
Patton: And our handbook talks about that. In fact, this is probably a good opportunity for me to read it to you. So, you’ve got this, right? You’ve got the handbook?
Durham: Yes.
Patton: And you sat in the meeting and you signed the form that said you would abide by it and all of that?
Durham: Yes, sir.
Patton: So, page 13 of the handbook uh, section 3.4 C says “if a personal, romantic, or intimate relationship is established between two or more employees post‐hire, it is the responsibility and obligation of the employees involved to disclose the existence of the relationship to the supervisor, manager, City Administrator, or Human Resources. When a conflict or potential conflict arises due to the relationship affecting employment, the City deserves the right to make any and all employment decisions in the best interest of the City.” Right? So, that’s from the handbook.
Durham: Right.
Patton: Well you know, layman’s terms, if people are going to get involved with each other in a romantic or intimate way they have an obligation to let us know so, we can make sure that those decisions are made appropriately.
Durham: Right.
Patton: Um, if people want to connect with people outside of work, I don’t have an issue with that. The concern that is the investigation that we’re looking into is inappropriate relationships within the Department. Um, that are affecting employment, outside of work, that are affecting employment and happening while on duty. Are you aware of any Officers who have engaged in sexual activity, while on duty?
Durham: Not that I’m aware of.
Patton: Okay.
Durham: No.
Patton: Have you heard any rumor of that?
Durham: The only thing that I even‐made me think of anything was that somebody said her car was parked outside of a house out there.
Patton: Out at the lake, or in town?
Durham: It was‐it was in town, in front a residence or something. I heard that her car was ran, I heard that from one of my detectives wondering what she was doing, she was parking on the street and you know how Chief is about parking on the street.
Patton: Her patrol car or her personal car?
Durham: No, personal car and they ran her tag and it came up. I don’t‐I don’t know um
Patton: When did that take place?
Durham: When were you really hot and heavy about it?
Davis: Oh it was‐
Durham: ‐it was during a‐it was during a hot and heavy time, maybe over the summer or something? Or or August?
Davis: I was going to say August.
Durham: Yeah, it was around that time.
Patton: Um, what do you know personally about her relationship or her life outside of work?
Durham: I absolutely, that’s the first time I’ve ever seen her outside of work.
Patton: Is at the house boat?
Durham: I’ve seen‐I’ve seen her two times outside of work and one was just a hence meeting and I’ll go ahead and tell you that story so, you can keep it fresh in your head. Um, my family was going to Disney on Ice, my wife and my youngest. My oldest daughter and me went‐she wanted to go to Sam’s Sports Bar, didn’t have any plans to meet up with anybody, it was dad and fifteen‐year‐old daughter‐or she was right at fifteen. We go in there and we’re waiting in line, I run into Larry Holladay. Larry’s in there sitting by himself um having a couple of drinks or a beer, whatever, told me he Ubered up there, I was like “Good for you.” Uh, I sat down, he actually asked me, he was like “Why don’t y’all come sit over here with me?” and I was like “Uh, I don’t like to‐“ Honestly, it’s just like the house boat thing, I don’t‐
Davis: Can I just have my family with me?
Durham: Yeah, and I didn’t‐I didn’t want to tell the guy no and it was kind of like, with the house boat, I didn’t want to go “I really shouldn’t be here.” But I’m here and I’m going to tell my family and my wife’s going to go “Why are we leaving?” Because‐and‐and I want‐so, and I’ll tell another story about the house boat in a minute and what I said to people that were there as well and I lectured on that. But anyways, where was I? I’m sorry.
Patton: Uh, Disney on Ice.
Davis: [inaudible]
Durham: Oh, yeah. So‐so, I run‐yeah, me and my daughter go up there and I’m like “hey, do you want to go to um‐um the other sports bar, right across from Sam’s Sports Bar?” “Nope, I want to go to Sam’s Sports Bar.” Then I see Larry, he’s like “come over and sit down.” Well, and I thought it was odd, but all of a sudden, I see Meagan show up. Um, I‐I don’t know if it was any‐I didn’t‐like they weren’t sitting all on top of each other, they sat across from each other. So, Larry’s here, I’m here, my daughter is sitting in front of me, and Meagan’s right there. Um, then it was like I hurried up and finished my wings and I‐in fact, she said something to me she was like “Why don’t you hang out?” And I’m like because number one, I ain’t drinking a bunch, I had a beer and I don’t‐a couple of drinks, but I was there for a couple of hours. But I was like “I don’t want to be here any longer, I’m not going to drink with y’all, I’ve got my fourteen‐year‐old daughter with me and I don’t play that game.” So um, that’s‐that’s the only outside of work that I have seen her.
Patton: But you commented that when you saw Larry and then Meagan showed up that it was like‐there was something‐
Durham: Yeah, I don’t‐I don’t‐I don’t mean it was something‐
Patton: ‐there was something that happened, right?
Durham: ‐it was just ironic that the two met up and like the way she came in and she was right there. And I don’t know if there was anything, it didn’t appear to be anything, it was just, she just showed up.
Davis: I’m not putting‐putting words in your mouth but it’s not like she was coming in a to‐go order or something.
Durham: Yeah, you know, like why is a‐a female um coming to a bar‐it’s just usually you don’t see females come to bars by themselves, they’re usually escorted by a male, and I know she’s married and my first words to her was “Where’s your husband?” and she says “He’s working.”
Patton: Okay.
Durham: Now, Larry took a Uber there. Um, but I left, I have nothing about it.
Patton: Okay. Um‐
Durham: Can I go back to the house boat thing?
Patton: Yeah. I was just about to ask you is there anything that happened on the house boat you would like to tell us about?
Durham: So‐so‐so, as far as the house boat um, I was on the upper deck and I kind of gave my sermon on the mount about don’t cheat on your spouse and you know, don’t get with any other cops and‐
Davis: Who did you tell this to?
Durham: That was‐that was in a group of PMag and her because I think it was after that the rumor was about going to the bathroom and I just wanted to squash it there and say “listen” that’s the biggest thing, and I gave my‐I gave my own testimony about being unfaithful to my wife so, it was kind of a testimonial thing about “don’t screw around on your spouse, if you don’t want to be there, leave.” But you know, and I wasn’t accusatory with them because I heard from Staats that allegedly there was nothing there that she just was in the bathroom by herself. I think she may have even made a comment that she was using the restroom later on, so.
Patton: Mm‐hmm. Is there anything else that happened on the house boat that you want to tell us?
Durham: Uh, you have to be specific with me that maybe I can recall.
Patton: What happened in the hot tub?
Durham: Uh‐
Patton: You, Staats, Meagan, Patrick in the hot tub.
Durham: Uh, specifically with me?
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Davis: Was you ever in the hot tub with that group of names?
Durham: Yeah, Staats, uh PMag‐
Patton: You and Meagan.
Durham: Yeah. But I don’t‐like you need to be specific with me here on this one because‐
Patton: Was Meagan drinking while on the boat?
Durham: Yes.
Patton: Did she get overly intoxicated to the affect that she couldn’t go um, not jet skiing, what do you? Rafting‐
Durham: Yeah, yeah.
Patton: ‐tubing‐tubing, because she couldn’t descend the stairs?
Durham: Yeah, I think she fell down the steps, yes.
Patton: Did um, do you remember being in the hot tub with her?
Durham: I do remember being in the hot tub, yes.
Patton: Um so, one of the reports that I have is while in the hot tub, her top came off.
Durham: She exposed herself.
Patton: And then you put her top back on her.
Durham: No, that was Staats. That was Staats that did that, I ain’t‐nope, nope. Wrong.
Patton: Okay.
Durham: Wrong, sir. I did not do that.
Davis: He’s not wrong, this is what he‐
Durham: No, I’m sorry, I‐I’m sorry‐
Patton: That’s why I’m asking you.
Durham: I did not, no. No, sir.
Patton: Staats did that.
Durham: No, no.
Patton: So, tell me about that experience, what happened?
Durham: Um, I think he said “Hey, your‐your‐“ and he went over there and did that. I didn’t, no, no, no, no. I think she did it earlier in the day too and exposed herself because I think my wife said something about it.
Patton: Okay.
Davis: Do you think the first time was intentional?
Durham: I don’t‐I don’t think, I think she was inebriated.
Patton: So, you‐
Durham: I saw somebody pouring uh vodka while she was in the hot tub and it was in a handle down her throat and‐
Patton: Who was that?
Durham: That was PMag and I yanked the bottle from him, I said “What are you trying to do? She’s inebriated.” So, no. No, I ain’t trying to‐my wife is on that boat. No, sir. Sorry, I
Patton: It’s okay.
Durham: ‐I get emotional about that.
Patton: I just‐
Durham: I’ve done bad things in my life but that ain’t one of them.
Patton: You made a comment a few minutes ago and I want to circle back to it. I want to make sure I understood it correctly because it was kind of in passing in the middle of something else. You said something to the extent of “I‐I either realize I shouldn’t have been there or I was rethinking why I was there” in relation to the house boat. So, can you tell me more about what the revelation was that maybe I shouldn’t have been there?
Durham: Well‐well I meant you know, Officers, don’t want to see them doing anything to bring me embarrassment but I was kind of in a situation where my family was there. My whole entire family had planned this weekend trip, my wife did with Staats, they had already gotten together and did that so it was like that should I go, should I stay? Now I’m going to ruin my you know, my family’s time.
Patton: Okay.
Durham: My‐my youngest [inaudible]‐
Patton: I was hoping that, I was hoping that.
Durham: Yes. But yeah‐
Patton: So‐so, by saying that then you can acknowledge that there are situations that probably senior leaders in an organization should not be with front line workers in an organization, right?
Durham: 100%.
Patton: In this case a Lieutenant with‐
Durham: Yes.
Patton: ‐patrol Officers.
Durham: Yeah, valuable lesson learned from situations.
Davis: Did you feel, I’m going to use the word ambushed, did you feel like when you saw PMag and Meagan‐
Durham: So, I
Davis: ‐the next morning, did you feel ambushed or did you feel deceived?
Durham: 100%, 100%.
Davis: You get what I’m saying [inaudible]
Durham: Nobody was‐nobody was like you know, like “Hey” I‐he mentioned like maybe on the way up there that they might show up, but they probably wouldn’t. But I was like, I hope not‐
Patton: Who’s he? Eric?
Durham: Eric, yeah. But like I didn’t know more than anything that they were going to show up and then I‐they were there and I was like, I was in that well I don’t want to load up my family and we done wheeled all of our stuff down there, I don’t‐you know, I try not to talk about work with Eric outside of it. He’s a supervisor um, I don’t like to talk about work outside of work. I‐I like to decompress of it but as far as that.
Davis: Let me ask you this‐
Durham: Sorry.
Davis: What was‐what was your intent going to the house boat?
Durham: To hang out with my wife‐my wife and talk to Eric about this. So, this was, my wife and kids I mean, they were excited because my oldest daughter took her best friend with her and we ended up staying an extra day because we were going to go to another party and the girls begged me to stay an extra day. So, technically speaking, I should have been gone on Sunday or early uh‐uh yeah, Sunday, leaving Sunday. In fact, I mean, it was‐it was actually kosher enough that my parents showed up. My parents were like “Well let me, you know, we ain’t doing anything, we’ll drive up to Center Hill and see Eric’s house boat.” So, and they stayed up and watched the sun set with us on‐on the same night. I did cooking, I cooked up there. It wasn’t‐it wasn’t me trying to um‐um‐
Davis: It was a family‐a family outing.
Durham: Yeah. Now, I didn’t‐I don’t‐I don’t fix people’s bathing suits and stuff, no. I think Eric did it probably a couple of times, to be matter of fact.
Patton: You tracking the accident in the City?
Davis: [inaudible]
Patton: I’m going to pause this for just a minute.
[Audio pauses at 24:27, restarts at 24:29]
Patton: Alright, um. Sorry, sorry for that interruption.
Durham: No, no, it’s fine.
Patton: Um, do you have any knowledge to other instances where Officer Hall has been inebriated to the point of not remembering, blacking out, having anything?
Durham: Last time, I don’t remember her, I mean, she was inebriated when she fell down the steps but I don’t‐I don’t recall, you know, she got back up and was not drinking after that, talking and everything else.
Patton: Okay.
Durham: [inaudible] sober, or sobering up, if you will. I didn’t see another drink in her hand. The only time I’ve seen her is outside of that is Sam’s Sports Bar, across the counter, she stayed and I left.
Patton: Okay.
Durham: Her and Larry stayed and I left.
Patton: Okay.
Durham: That is the only other time.
Patton: A couple other specific questions, again, these are not accusatory, they’re just questions.
Durham: Correct.
Patton: Um, have you ever received naked photos of Officer Hall sent to you on your phone?
Durham: Negative. And‐and I would like to um clarify this. You’re more than welcome, this is my City phone. Um, Meagan has now just put in my um contacts because I have a bad habit of not adding new Officers in there. So, she just had the name, um‐
Davis: [inaudible]
Durham: So, um I don’t even remember her calling but if she did I called her work number. I mean, her that’s her personal number, I guess.
Patton: Okay.
Durham: Um, I don’t remember what that was about. I couldn’t tell you um, I think it was work related.
Patton: And that’s‐
Durham: I don’t even know if I even called her, I don’t think I called her.
Patton: That was July 22nd?
Durham: Yeah.
Patton: Okay.
Durham: Um‐uh, what I thought, I didn’t even know I had Larry Holladay’s number and I actually thought that was Larry.
Patton: Okay.
Durham: Because Larry’s like “I’m here every week.” Which I thought was weird, you know. So, you’re more than welcome to read through all of those.
Patton: Okay.
Durham: Um, take a picture of them, snapshot, send them.
Patton: So, the whole time‐are you saying that after July these October texts, you’re thinking you’re texting with Larry?
Durham: Uh, no. Just uh about the Sam’s Sports Bar.
Patton: Okay.
Durham: So, the “boo” and then uh‐
Patton: At this point, you know it’s Meagan?
Durham: Um, I actually asked Larry, I’m like uh a few days after that I’m like “Hey dude, did you uh‐um dude did you uh‐I said, did you go to Sam’s?” and he goes “No.” and I said “Oh, you didn’t ask me to go?” and he goes “No.” and that’s when I figured out it was Meagan.
Patton: Okay.
Durham: But‐but‐but she like tries to send like funny little “you’re a loser” kind of thing, I don’t know what that’s about.
Patton: So just‐
Durham: I mean, I think it’s kind of funny sometimes because it’s like you know, it’s kind of like‐
Davis: It’s nothing.
Durham: It’s not you know, somebody would say that, I don’t take it personally because I’m a jokester too. So, somebody saying that to a Lieutenant is kind of funny to me. It’s like Woodard does that kind of stuff‐
Patton: Yeah.
Durham: ‐and I think that’s funny.
Patton: And I’m just‐I’m just saying this so it can be on our take for our interview.
Durham: Yeah.
Patton: October 13th, she texted you “Loser, it’s not even 4.” You said “Sick little one with a high fever. I’m a first responder, even at home. Therefore, I’m a winner.” She says “Whatever helps you sleep at night.” Uh, then she sends you her personal number again and she said “Here’s my personal since they monitor crap now.”
Durham: Yep.
Patton: Any thoughts about that particular text?
Durham: Yeah. That’s why you got an “Okay.” But you’re more than welcome to look through my personal phone too. So‐
Patton: Okay. That’s okay.
Durham: I have never texted her in my entire life, hand on the bible, not‐you know, I’m a Christian as well and you know how I feel and I won’t lie to you and I
Patton: Well that’s‐that’s good.
Durham: ‐have never texted that girl on my personal phone.
Patton: Okay.
Davis: [inaudible] you know what he’s talking about.
Durham: I know the Lieutenant‐
Patton: So, back to the original question, the answer was no on the nudes, right?
Durham: No. I never seen any pictures of her that I’m aware of.
Patton: Are you aware of any other Police Officer in the City of LaVergne receiving those texts?
Durham: Of pictures of her?
Patton: Yes.
Durham: No, I’m not aware.
Patton: Okay. Um, have you had any concerns or has anything ever been voiced to you about inappropriate communications between her and Ty?
Durham: No.
Patton: Okay. How about her and Seneca Shields?
Durham: No. I mean, I’ve seen her in Ty’s office and‐and joking with Ty but not very often.
Patton: Okay.
Durham: Especially when she first started maybe.
Patton: Okay. But nothing that would raise a red flag to you.
Durham: But nothing that made me go “Hey, them two are doing something.”
Patton: Okay.
Durham: Or even with Seneca Shields either.
Patton: Okay.
Durham: Um, no.
Davis: He was training her, I knew that. Ty was training her.
Patton: Ty was training her?
Durham: Yeah, yeah. So, she was over there at times or whatever.
Patton: Okay. Um‐
Durham: Because she made a smart comment one time and I told Ty, I said “Uh, she went a little far with it.” I don’t remember what the comment was and Ty stopped her on that. So, that’s the only thing.
Patton: But nothing’s been on your radar and nobody has said anything to you?
Durham: Nothing that’s going on between them two.
Patton: Okay. Um, would you say the same thing about Magliocco?
Durham: You know, I thought like I said, in the house boat, but then I remember Staats saying that they weren’t in the bathroom together.
Patton: Okay.
Durham: Originally, I thought so‐
Patton: And that was it, that was the end of that conversation.
Durham: ‐and I didn’t see them you know, now I did go to sleep and slept in my own bed with my wife and my daughter. Um, but I don’t‐I didn’t see. I don’t know if she got back up and went into the um living room.
Patton: Right. Okay.
Durham: But‐but or vice versa if he came into her room.
Patton: Okay.
Durham: But no.
Patton: And obviously, you’ve mentioned to us the situation that you encountered at Sam’s with Larry being there and then Meagan coming.
Durham: Yeah.
Patton: Does that raise a flag of anything for you?
Durham: Other than it was just ironic that she just was there, you know?
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Durham: I don’t know if that makes any sense to y’all that it was like “Oh, there’s Meagan.” Um‐
Patton: And now that we’ve talked about some specific people, is there anybody that I haven’t mentioned that comes to mind?
Durham: No, I didn’t know anything about anybody.
Patton: Okay.
Durham: Um well, well I‐I have my suspicions about, I think it was an Internal Affairs matter than um, Deputy Chief Hatcher worked and it dealt with the uh‐um‐the Academy.
Davis: Oh yeah, that was‐
Durham: And I thought that was kind of weird. Just saying.
Davis: You know, that kind of leads us to believe that could have been something [inaudible].
Durham: Yes. I‐I, yeah.
Patton: Okay. Um‐
Davis: Now, hindsight being‐
Patton: Did you‐did you as a‐and I know you’re not on duty, right? But I’m‐I’m going to use‐I’m going to use titles and it may not be appropriate for the question but, did you as a Lieutenant think to say anything to Sergeant Staats about helping her fix her bikini top or anything like that? Did any comments come up about “Hey, man, you probably should be careful” anything like that?
Durham: I‐I‐well, Staats is um‐
Davis: You can say it.
Durham: I‐I‐I mean, Staats is homosexual. So, I think he’s just like being helpful in that way. I’m trying to say it the best way I can but it wasn’t like‐it was to‐
Patton: A concern, right?
Durham: ‐protect her. But he was trying to protect her modesty, I guess would be the‐the words to do it. Was there anything there? No, he was‐it would be like another girl fixing another girl’s bathing suit, in my eyes.
Patton: Okay. Um‐
Durham: I can’t believe that was asked about me.
Davis: Did you think it was odd that Mag‐PMag and here showed up together [inaudible]?
Durham: I‐I don’t think honestly, I don’t‐he‐he‐they didn’t show up together.
Patton: He said that she was there and then he came later‐
Durham: Yeah‐
Patton: ‐that day‐
Durham: ‐a short time later, yeah.
Patton: ‐and then his wife came‐
Durham: ‐and then his‐well, she was his fiancé at the time because I actually met her and “good luck to you” and I gave her a speech too about you know, it’s hard being married to an Officer, my wife even started telling them it’s been hard being married to an Officer and all of that kind of stuff and I thought it was odd that she left though. I’m like “Well why don’t you stay?” And I don’t know why she didn’t stay, I couldn’t recall as far as why she didn’t stay, but.
Patton: Alright, last question. Probably just yes or no. Do you‐are you familiar, has anybody mentioned to you in conversation as you get to know Officers, um any Officers that may be in a public, open marriage type of relationship?
Durham: An open marriage?
Patton: Meaning like I’m married, but I’m open to other relationships.
Durham: Well, I know we had one years ago but that’s probably you’re thinking of recent.
Patton: Yeah.
Durham: But um, no.
Patton: Okay, okay. You got anything else?
Davis: I’m good.
Patton: Alright. So, I mean, again it goes without saying but just so I can say I told you, like it’s really important when we open that door up to not discuss this.
Durham: Correct.
Patton: Um, this investigation is going to take some time, it’s significant, um, you‐you have provided some information that confirmed some things we already knew which is helpful. Um, at this point, I don’t expect that I will have any follow‐up with you, that’s subject to change but I don’t‐I think I’ve learned everything that I needed to learn from you. Um, I don’t‐I don’t suspect anything um but obviously if something changes we’ll let you know.
Durham: I’ll be over here to speak with you.
Patton: I don’t think that there’s anything else that I need to follow‐up on. So, do you have any questions at all?
Durham: No, sir.
Patton: Okay.
Durham: I’m trying to figure it out on my own.
Patton: Okay.
Share Ask A Cop
Interview of Larry Holladay (312)
Patton: ‐on duty, right? You’re off the clock?
Holladay: Right.
Patton: So, um, we’ll keep track of our time. You’ll get paid for coming in to talk with us this morning.
Holladay: Alright.
Patton: Um, I am in the middle of an investigation in the Police Department and um, your name has come up in the course of the investigation as someone who may have some information that could be helpful.
Holladay: Okay.
Patton: So, that’s why I asked you to come in, or Chief asked you to come in today because I want to ask you some specific questions about what we’re looking into. Um, to see what you know or don’t know. Um, before I start my questions I know Chief wants to go over a form with you.
Holladay: Garrity?
Davis: Are you familiar with this document here?
Holladay: Garrity?
Davis: Garrity.
Holladay: Mm‐hmm.
Davis: Do you‐you want to take some time to read it, do I need to read it for you?
Holladay: No, I’ve‐I’ve read them several times. Bottom one?
Davis: Uh, at the bottom sign and date for me, please.
Patton: Um, do you have‐well first, two things, one, everything that we talk about um in this conversation will remain confidential. Um, so, I just need you to answer questions honestly, obviously that’s my expectation, you obviously have an obligation to do that as well.
Holladay: Right.
Patton: Um, when the investigation is closed, obviously I cannot protect confidentiality at that point, because of open records.
Holladay: Mm‐hmm, right.
Patton: Right?
Holladay: Sure.
Patton: So, if somebody requested it, they could‐they could get the documents. While it’s open, everything will remain here. Um, the folks that know about this investigation are very small. Um, so, um, I don’t expect um anybody would mention this to you. Um, however, I always like to go over that we have a no retaliation policy, right?
Holladay: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: So, no one is allowed to retaliate against you for participating in this conversation, you also can’t retaliate against anyone that you may learn has participated in a similar conversation and if you ever feel like that’s happening, I want you to come directly to me and let me know so I can look into those concerns, alright?
Holladay: Okay.
Patton: Okay. Um, so, first, do you have any idea of why we wanted to talk with you?
Holladay: I have no clue.
Patton: Has anybody said anything to you this week?
Holladay: No, no.
Patton: Okay, okay. So, I’m looking into an investigation around second shift Officers.
Holladay: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: Um, so, I want to start by asking you, can you tell me what your words would be to describe the culture of second shift at LPD?
Holladay: As far as just work?
Patton: Work, relationships, how people behave at work, off work, like what’s the culture of the shift?
Holladay: Seems like everybody gets along.
Patton: Okay.
Holladay: People go out and do their jobs, I mean.
Patton: Okay. Any um, any known disagreements, beefs, anything like that, that you know about between Officers?
Holladay: Not that‐not that I’m aware of, no.
Patton: Okay. Do you know any rumors of any issues like that?
Holladay: Not that I’ve heard.
Patton: Okay. Um, for your job, am I correct in saying that like‐unlike patrol, you’re not like first on a dispatch, you’re‐you’re kind of doing your thing‐
Holladay: It depends on the nature of the call, a lot of times dispatch will actually look and see where we’re at. If we’re close to something that they consider serious, they’ll send us first.
Patton: They’ll send you?
Holladay: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: Okay. Um, but outside of that you’re‐you’re kind of doing your own thing on your shift‐
Holladay: Correct.
Patton: ‐and then, helping where you can‐
Holladay: Correct.
Patton: ‐because you have your own, canine has their own kind of mission.
Holladay: Yes.
Patton: Okay, okay. Does that mean that you would potentially have less interaction with Patrol Officers on a regular basis because you’re doing your own thing or?
Holladay: I wouldn’t‐I wouldn’t say that. They call us to back them up on traffic stops, I mean.
Patton: Okay, okay. Um, are you aware of any interpersonal intimate relationships between Officers‐
Holladay: Not that I’m aware of.
Patton: ‐or staff?
Holladay: Not that I’m aware of.
Patton: Okay. Um, what information do you have related to any second shift Officers or staff that may be dealing with mental health issues?
Holladay: Uh, I would say Meagan Hall. She texted me and told me that she was recently in a institution.
Patton: Okay, tell me about that text. When did it come in, what did it say?
Holladay: Um, she said, she texted me and said, “Hey, I’m home.” I said, “Uh, where have you been?” She was off work the last week. She said, “Well I was‐I was put in a‐“ I can’t remember exactly what she called it.
Patton: Okay.
Holladay: For involuntary, or whatever.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Holladay: I was like “Are you okay?” and she was like “Yeah, I’m all better now.” That was it.
Patton: Okay. Um, did you have any indication that she was struggling prior to that text where she didn’t come to work?
Holladay: She told me she was having a bad day a couple of weeks ago.
Patton: Okay. Do you remember what she said specifically?
Holladay: Mm‐mm.
Patton: Um, and when she told you she was having a bad day, were there any specific comments about being suicidal?
Holladay: I don’t recall.
Patton: Okay. Um, what do you know about um hang outs between Officers off shift, on second shift? Are you familiar with them?
Holladay: I’ve had‐I wouldn’t call it a party, but I’ve had people over to watch football, once.
Patton: Okay. Who was a part of that?
Holladay: It was me, Meagan was there, Magliocco was there, um one of my other friends that’s not affiliated with the Police Department, my child’s mom and Womack showed up like, later that evening.
Patton: Was there um, was there drinking at that party?
Holladay: There was.
Patton: Okay. Did anybody get excessively intoxicated that you remember?
Holladay: No, I mean.
Patton: Okay.
Holladay: There was a‐there was an issue between my mom and my child’s mother, but that’s not related.
Patton: Right. Um, did anything happen at that football party that would be classified under like an intimate relationship type, situation?
Holladay: No.
Patton: Okay. Is there any reason why I would have information that said differently? That took place at that party, that you can think of?
Holladay: There was‐there was mention of an act but that act never happened.
Patton: And what was the mention? Who was the people that were involved with that?
Holladay: Me and my child’s mother and Meagan.
Patton: Okay. What was the act that was mentioned?
Holladay: I would rather not discuss that. I mean, is that something I have to‐have to say?
Patton: I have to ask you to answer every question honestly.
Holladay: I mean there was talk about a threesome between the three of us.
Patton: Okay. Between you, Meagan, and your‐your child’s mom?
Holladay: Correct.
Patton: Okay.
Davis: I’m just going to say this, [inaudible]
Holladay: I understand it, it’s just very personal.
Davis: I understand what you’re saying, it’s‐it’s hard, it’s personal.
Patton: Mm‐hmm, mm‐hmm.
Davis: But in order for us to get from A to B, you have to say that. That’s vital.
Holladay: Okay.
Patton: Yeah.
Davis: We don’t care, we could care less about any of that stuff, okay. So, don’t feel like we’re going to come down on you, oh, you was going to, no.
Holladay: Okay.
Patton: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I hadn’t gotten to that statement so, thank you for‐for saying that. Um, this whole conversation is going to be uncomfortable.
Holladay: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: Um, I don’t want to have it, you don’t want to have it. But, we’re here, right?
Holladay: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: So, um, one of the things I will say is, I’ve been conducting this uh investigation for a number of days.
Holladay: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: I will ask a few questions, most likely that I have answer to already.
Holladay: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: I am just looking for confirmation on information that I already have.
Holladay: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: Okay? So, that’s why I asked you the question about the party.
Holladay: Okay.
Patton: Um, so, there was talk of this act but it did not happen, is that what you’re saying?
Holladay: Correct, that’s correct.
Patton: Was there any physical contact between you and Meagan at that party?
Holladay: Not that I recall.
Patton: Okay. I have a report that you and Meagan kissed at that party. You don’t recall that?
Holladay: I mean, it’s a possibility I‐there was drinking going on, so.
Patton: Okay. Have you been in offsite situations where there’s been interact‐physical interactions other than that football party?
Holladay: Yes.
Patton: Okay. What are those times? Can you tell me?
Holladay: We‐we’ve met up after work a couple of times.
Patton: You and her?
Holladay: Correct.
Patton: Okay.
Davis: Do you know how many times?
Holladay: I don’t.
Davis: Just a few?
Holladay: A few, yeah.
Patton: And um, has that been at your house, at her house?
Holladay: There’s been a hotel a couple of times and there’s been my house.
Patton: Okay, okay. And were you‐did you engage with sex with her on those times?
Holladay: Yes.
Patton: Okay. Did she talk with you about her marriage? And if so, what did she share about it?
Holladay: [inaudible] I mean, she said that it wasn’t in a good place.
Patton: Okay.
Holladay: That’s about it, I mean, I try not to pry into people’s personal stuff, I have my own to deal with.
Patton: Mm‐hmm, mm‐hmm. Um, were there any comments about it being an open marriage?
Holladay: I don’t recall.
Patton: Okay. Um, when was the last time that you were with her physically?
Holladay: It’s been a couple weeks, two, three, four weeks, maybe a month, I don’t know.
Patton: Okay. Who else at LaVergne Police Department is she involved with?
Holladay: I have no idea.
Patton: Okay. So, my second question to you is do you have any information of any intimate relationships? You answered that question, no. Obviously, you are involved in‐
Holladay: Uh, well.
Patton: ‐an intimate relationship with her. So, I want to ask that question again, the last question. Who else at LaVergne Police Department is she involved with?
Holladay: I have no idea.
Patton: Okay. And that’s an honest answer?
Holladay: Yes.
Patton: Okay. Um, what is her reputation among Officers?
Holladay: Kind of ditsy, um, crashes cars.
Patton: Okay.
Holladay: I mean‐
Patton: Do people talk about her as extremely sexual?
Holladay: No.
Patton: Wanting to hook up with people?
Holladay: No. I’ve never been involved in those conversations.
Patton: Okay, and‐and you don’t have any information about anybody else that she’s in a relationship with?
Holladay: Correct.
Patton: To your knowledge, you’re the only person she’s in a relationship with?
Holladay: As far as I know, yeah.
Patton: Okay. And she contacted you after she was released, she did not contact you before she went in?
Holladay: Uh, she did. She texted me and said “Hey, tell him I won’t be at work.” I said, “I can’t do that, you need to call them.”
Patton: Okay.
Holladay: “If I tell them that, it’s going to be like a no call, now show. You’re going to have to call and tell them yourself.”
Patton: Okay, what day was that?
Holladay: Tuesday or Wednesday, Thursday, maybe.
Patton: Okay.
Holladay: Oh no, no, no wait‐wait‐wait. It wouldn’t have been Tuesday, it had to be Wednesday or Thursday.
Patton: What‐what else‐so, she just said “I’m not coming to work?”
Holladay: I don’t recall.
Patton: She didn’t say anything?
Holladay: She said, “I’m having a bad day again.” I don’t‐
Patton: Okay.
Holladay: I don’t‐I don’t remember exactly the‐what was said.
Patton: Um, I have learned through this investigation that sexual interaction has been happening between her and others.
Holladay: Okay.
Patton: Um, while on duty. Did you ever participate‐
Holladay: No.
Patton: ‐in any sexual activity‐
Holladay: Absolutely not.
Patton: ‐with her, while on duty?
Holladay: Absolutely not.
Patton: Okay, and I wouldn’t learn differently?
Holladay: No.
Patton: Okay, and are you aware of her having any interactions with anybody while on duty?
Holladay: No.
Patton: Okay. Have you been asked to cover up for anybody?
Holladay: No.
Patton: Okay.
Davis: Have you and Meagan ever met up with each other at the substation?
Holladay: No. Uh, maybe once.
Davis: Did y’all go inside?
Holladay: I think I opened the door to let her in to go pee, but I don’t recall if I went in or not.
Davis: Just once?
Holladay: I believe so.
Davis: Okay. Y’all never hung out there?
Holladay: Not that I can recall. I don’t think we even like pulled up in the parking lot together. Maybe that one time.
Davis: Okay.
Patton: Um, are you familiar with the handbook?
Holladay: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: You got a copy?
Holladay: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: You sat through a meeting where you were asked to sign a document that said you would abide by it?
Holladay: Correct.
Patton: Okay. So, on page thirteen of the handbook, it’s 3.4 C says, under personal relationship, “If a personal romantic or intimate relationship is established between two or more employees post‐hire, it is the responsibility and obligation of the employees involved to disclose the existence of that relationship to the supervisor, manager, City Administrator, or Human Resources. When I conflict or potential conflict arises due to the relationship affecting employment, the City reserves the right to make any and all employment decisions in the best interest of the City. Okay? So, to piggyback on what Chief said a few moments ago, I have no interest in what happens outside of work.
Holladay: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: Um, I don’t have any thoughts or judgement on what happens outside of work. However, when what happens outside of work affects work, then it becomes an issue that I have to deal with.
Holladay: Right.
Patton: That’s why we’re here.
Holladay: Okay.
Patton: Okay. Can you tell me why you did not disclose that you are having a relationship with Meagan? To anybody that you report to.
Holladay: I mean, I wasn’t aware of that particular um paragraph in there.
Patton: Okay.
Holladay: I mean that’s‐that’s the only thing I can say.
Patton: Okay. What do you know about a‐what has been reported to be a “girls gone wild” hot tub party?
Holladay: I’ve never been in a hot tub with anybody from this place.
Patton: Okay. You ever heard of a party happening?
Holladay: No.
Patton: Um, okay. I’m struggling a little bit, Larry. Because I feel like some of your answers have changed as we’ve asked questions and so, I want to make sure we’re‐we’re getting the truth.
Holladay: Which‐which ones?
Patton: Well, we started with no knowledge of intimate relationships, but you have one.
Holladay: Well, I was not speaking on myself. I was speaking about anybody else.
Patton: Okay, okay. Um, do you understand the situation that we’re in? Is it‐is it making sense to you or does this feel?
Holladay: I’m kind of at a toss‐up.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Holladay: I don’t know if this is part of her situation with her mental stability or something else. I have no idea.
Patton: Mm‐hmm, mm‐hmm. I think what we’re trying to investigate is how widespread is this behavior among second shift.
Holladay: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: Right.
Holladay: Oh, okay.
Davis: And can we give you a moment also to think about if you can remember any other times outside of work, you said your house, you said a hotel room, [inaudible]
Holladay: Mm‐hmm.
Davis: Were there any other places that you two have gotten together? Not necessarily for sexual acts or anything, just period.
Holladay: We met, we went and watched a ball game at Sam’s Sports Bar.
Patton: When was that?
Holladay: Oh, it’s been a while ago. Not long after football season started, I would say. Um, and then one of the‐one of the times at a hotel was like right after that. Like that same day.
Patton: Okay. So, you went from Sam’s to the hotel?
Holladay: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: Okay. And is‐I’m sorry, is Sam’s in LaVergne?
Holladay: Murfreesboro.
Patton: Murfreesboro.
Davis: It’s uh, you can’t say it’s connected to the Stones River Mall, but it’s all a part of it.
Patton: Okay. Was it just the two of you at Sam’s?
Holladay: Uh, Lieutenant Durham and his daughter actually came in and they sat with us while they ate.
Patton: Was that planned?
Holladay: Uh‐uh.
Patton: No, that was just a‐
Holladay: No, yeah, just a random, they walked in. I already had a table and was waiting on her so, I was like “Hey, just come sit with me.”
Patton: Okay, and you said it was Lieutenant Durham and his daughter?
Holladay: I believe so, yeah.
Patton: Okay. Um, was that awkward for y’all was it‐
Holladay: No.
Patton: ‐it was just‐
Holladay: Just sitting around, watching the game and talking.
Patton: Okay, okay. Okay, any other times?
Holladay: Uh, not that I can think of.
Patton: Okay.
Holladay: To be completely honest with you.
Patton: Okay. Do you have anything that I’ve missed, Chief?
Davis: Was there any point in time, I‐I found this out‐information yesterday too‐uh, was there any point in time where she was off duty and came to the City and parked her car and got into a vehicle with you?
Holladay: No.
Patton: In a Patrol car?
Davis: Personal car.
Holladay: Oh, personal car?
Davis: Her personal car, she parked it somewhere‐
Holladay: Came‐came here?
Davis: ‐to the City, somewhere in the City.
Holladay: Off duty? I don’t believe so.
Davis: Okay.
Patton: Do you live in LaVergne?
Holladay: Not anymore.
Davis: When did you move?
Holladay: July or August. August, I believe.
Davis: Okay, and going back to your football party.
Holladay: Mm‐hmm.
Davis: Again, not about your party, we all have‐was Womack involved in anything then?
Holladay: No.
Davis: Okay.
Patton: You said he showed up late‐
Holladay: He showed up, yeah, because he had worked shift and then he came over after‐after shift.
Patton: Was it after all of that conversation and all of that?
Holladay: Yeah. Uh, I believe so.
Patton: And he didn’t‐
Holladay: That‐that night’s bad for me because of personal issues.
Davis: You‐you disclosed what happened, to me. Because you didn’t [inaudible]
Holladay: Yes, yes.
Davis: That was the proper thing to do, so.
Patton: Okay.
Davis: Nothing came through the department about that, so.
Holladay: Right.
Davis: You know‐
Holladay: Right.
Davis: ‐that was between you know, your baby momma, your momma.
Holladay: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: Did, but to stay on Womack, did he ever participate in any of those conversations?
Holladay: I don’t believe so.
Patton: Okay, and you don’t have any memory or knowledge that he ever engaged with Meagan?
Holladay: Not that I’m aware of.
Patton: Okay. I think‐I think I’ve got the information‐
Davis: I’m good.
Holladay:
Patton: ‐confirmed, that I needed. Okay. So, where do we go from here? Um, first, when we open up that door, I need you to not discuss this with anybody.
Holladay: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: Um, Chief has made some even stronger statements to other people but um, this is an ongoing investigation and it‐it cannot be talked about, okay?
Holladay: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: So, if anybody asked, you two can come up about what you’re going to say about why you came to work today to meet with Chief, okay.
Davis: Okay.
Holladay: Alright.
Patton: You guys can figure that out but, it cannot be about this investigation. Um, I would tell you that I would expect that there would be a follow‐up conversation with you.
Holladay: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: Um, I don’t have a timeline for when that will be. Um, this investigation will not be concluded this week.
Holladay: Okay.
Patton: Um, because you told me that there has not been uh sexual behavior while on duty.
Holladay: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: And as of today, I don’t have information regarding you that‐that is different than that, um, I don’t have any reason to take you off shift. If I discover information that contradicts what you’ve told me, we’ll have a different conversation. Um, but uh as of right now, what you’ve told me, everything you shared with me is information I already had and you’ve confirmed it, okay? So, I appreciate that and I understand the awkwardness‐
Holladay: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: ‐and I‐although I don’t know what it feels like when you walk out of here, it’s going to be probably worse. Um, but all I can tell you is I would expect a follow‐up conversation. I don’t know when that will be. Anything you want to add to that?
Davis: Just again, if it was something that we felt that we needed to put you on Admin, you would be walking out that door.
Holladay: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Davis: But we’re not doing that. So, get to work um, I feel I do have to say that it’s just three of you all right now. Just get to work. Don’t‐don’t ask, I’m not saying don’t care, uh‐
Patton: Three of you meaning, just on K9, correct?
Davis: Yeah. Right, right, right.
Patton: Correct.
Davis: So, of course it’s in your backyard. I’m just saying, you, not the guys, just work.
Holladay: Alright.
Davis: Just work.
Holladay: Okay.
Patton: If you um hear information, if you get asked specific questions that match these questions, if you have anybody that says to you “hey, I hear this is going down.” I need you to come tell me or Chief immediately. Um, protecting that information would not be helpful. Um, so I need you to be willing to commit to share that. Um, I don’t want you to engage in those conversations but I’m not dumb enough to think that it’s not going to happen at some point in a parking lot some place.
Holladay: Mm‐hmm, right.
Patton: Be like “what the heck is happening at City Hall?” So, this is a significant, serious investigation.
Davis: Yes.
Patton: And um, I don’t know where it’s going to land but I appreciate your participation. So, um, you are living in Murfreesboro now?
Holladay: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: Okay. So‐
Davis: You going to K9 training?
Holladay: Yes.
Davis: Okay.
Patton: From here?
Davis: Yes, so he’s good.
Patton: Okay, okay. So, you know, add an hour to your day. Whatever‐you know, whatever time you left your house this morning to come here.
Holladay: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: Start‐start your day there, okay. Um, and then um carry on and then like I said, we’ll‐we’ll follow‐up with you when this investigation is concluded and we’ll‐we’ll have some follow‐up conversations at that point. Any questions for me at this point?
Holladay: No.
Patton: Okay. Alright, drive safely. I appreciate you coming in.
*Powell asked the Mayor to set up a meeting between him and the anonymous person who was giving the Mayor information about the case. He did not know who he would be meeting*
Unofficial HR Interview of Henry “Ty” McGowan (164)
Patton: You want to sit in your car, my car, what do you want to do?
McGowan: [inaudible]
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: [inaudible]
Patton: I wasn’t thinking I was going to be meeting you. I thought I was going to meet somebody that like‐
McGowan: I know [inaudible]
Patton: ‐that didn’t ever talk to me.
McGowan: Everybody talks to me. [inaudible]
Patton: [inaudible] Let’s sit down where I can write‐
McGowan: Okay.
Patton: ‐because I don’t want to write standing up.
McGowan: [inaudible] There’s a reason why I’ve got this under plastic. It’s‐it’s‐this is my life right here.
[inaudible] I had chicken. Man, I was as hungry as a hostage.
Patton: Man, I ate before I came because I was like [inaudible] Um, yeah. I’m like‐
McGowan: What do you need to know? You tell me what you need to know and I’ll‐
Patton: So many questions.
McGowan: [inaudible]
Patton: So, my first question.
McGowan: Okay.
Patton: So, I‐I didn’t know who I was meeting.
McGowan: Okay.
Patton: I didn’t think it would be you because I’m like “well, clearly this is someone that doesn’t feel comfortable talking to me and hasn’t talked with me.” That’s what I made up, right. Because I was like‐
McGowan: Yeah.
Patton: So, when you rolled up I was like “wait, what?” Because I‐we talk all the time.
McGowan: Yeah.
Patton: So, I guess maybe like before‐because one of my questions about this whole week was whoever has this info, why did they go to Jason and not to me?
McGowan: Jason? About what [inaudible]
Patton: All the investigation I’ve been working on.
McGowan: Is that what we’re talking about?
Patton: What do you think we’re talking about?
McGowan: Oh, okay. We’re talking about something different.
Patton: Uh‐uh.
McGowan: Okay, what do you need to know about the investigation?
Patton: Well I’m working on an investigation of second shift that came from Jason. That he says came from you without knowing who you were until now. And I’m like “Why‐why is this going straight to
Jason, instead of like‐“ First off, why doesn’t like somebody trust HR?
McGowan: [inaudible] I didn’t start this investigation. Unless there’s some kind of [inaudible]
Patton: How did you‐okay. Today is what? Wednesday?
McGowan: Wednesday, yeah.
Patton: So, Jason came to me Monday.
McGowan: Okay.
Patton: No. Yes, Jason came to me Monday.
McGowan: Okay.
Patton: Said he needed to talk with me.
McGowan: Okay.
Patton: And he told me some information. And he said he was getting it from a reliable source.
McGowan: Okay.
Patton: I said, is your reliable source inside or outside? He said inside. And he said, “And this person has never steered me wrong.” I was like, “Okay.” So, he told me the information and then that’s what I’ve been working on all week. Yesterday I said I really need to talk with whoever it is that you have got this information from because to legitimize the investigation, I got to‐you know, I need them to come to me.
McGowan: Okay.
Patton: He said, “Well he doesn’t want to talk with you. He doesn’t‐he doesn’t‐he comes to me because he doesn’t trust HR.” And‐
McGowan: I didn’t say that.
Patton: And he’s working on an operation today, a bust operation, so, he can’t meet you. I’m like, “Okay.” So, then as I was doing the investigation yesterday I‐Hatcher mentioned the operation was cancelled. I was like, “Cool.” So, I walked across the street and said “Hey, the operation’s cancelled, can we meet today?”
McGowan: Hmm.
Patton: Never heard a response. Next thing I know, is I get a pin drop and a 2:00pm meeting location at the [inaudible]
McGowan: Right, yeah.
Patton: And said to meet. So, you know what I’m saying? I’m trying to figure out‐I’m‐like more for me just to understand like, why‐
McGowan: Okay. And that’s why‐I was just reading through his text and it didn’t [inaudible]
Patton: So, you didn’t bring him the information?
McGowan: The information about what?
Patton: Meagan Hall.
McGowan: No, I didn’t say nothing to him about Meagan Hall. I said something about Megan Hall to [inaudible] Never to him, never to him.
Patton: So, he’s hearing it from somebody other than you?
McGowan: Yeah.
Patton: Do you know who that person is?
McGowan: There’s two people that I talk to that are close to him but I don’t think [inaudible] it was kind of like “she’s wild” and whatnot. Um, she um, I’ve heard rumors, it’s all rumors, that’s why you don’t go to HR with rumors. I just heard‐I heard and then all of sudden this stuff blowing up. The rumor was, and since we’re here being honest, what I think happened was Chip told Jason and Jason told you and‐and I told‐
Patton: Chip told Jason?
McGowan: Yeah, I think Chip‐I think Chip started this. This‐this is my own opinion. I think Chip started because Chip knows, Chip knows. [inaudible]
Patton: When did he know?
McGowan: [inaudible]
Patton: Okay. So‐
McGowan: He heard the rumors, he didn’t know for sure. You know what I’m saying?
Patton: Yeah. Tell me what you heard. So, I can validate information I’ve learned this week.
McGowan: Okay. So, my information is on Meagan, everybody. When I say everybody, everybody on second shift minus uh, minus Danny Saing. [inaudible] All of second shift, but nobody for sure except for PMag. Now‐
Patton: And how did you learn about‐who did you learn about PMag from?
McGowan: From her.
Patton: She told you?
McGowan: [inaudible] I’ve got receipts. Let me‐like I said, I’m‐nothing to hide, I’m texting her right now. We’re texting back and forth, see, four minutes ago. Everything is PG‐13 except for [inaudible]. Alright so, when she texts I don’t answer back. There’s a reason and we’re going to get into details with that, we’re going to get into details with that. So, uh “Wanna come over?” She asked me if I wanted to come over and you see, no response. “You up?” No response. I know what this is leading to because I can show you the previous texts that shows “Have you [inaudible] today?” “Not today, [inaudible].” “Damn, I was hoping uh you could rub my feet, they hurt.” [inaudible] This was Sunday [inaudible] would not answer back, I actually went fishing that day, [inaudible]. So, um, “If you have a lot to do, [inaudible], I’ve had such a bad week I can’t be alone right now, I really just want to drink and be with someone who cares about me. Come over.” That right there was kind of one of those, yeah okay, you’re reaching for attention, you got it, you got me. You can’t say those words and me not respond, so I did respond. She said “Your place?” I said, “Yes, ma’am.” [inaudible] “Just got out of the shower, (Street Address Redacted)?” “You’re correct.” “On my way.” So, she came over‐she came over, that was December‐ December 4th.
Patton: 4th.
McGowan: So, it was probably around‐around [inaudible] when she got over there.
Patton: Today is the 14th, last week would have been the 7th which is a week ago past Sunday.
McGowan: Yeah, yeah. She came over and this is‐she told me about her mom tried to commit suicide. She didn’t want to talk about it but she came over, she‐she sat down and I was like, “What’s on your mind? You know, what‐what are you doing? So, are you working out? Staying in the gym?” Because that’s‐that’s where the [inaudible] came in. I mean, [inaudible] like uh, Sal, all the people who’ve been to PT, because she [inaudible] with PT at first. And then I trained her to get the job. So, if it wasn’t for me she wouldn’t have the job because I took her to the gym, trained her physically, and she got the job. So, with that being said, I’m Papa Bear, okay. Um, she came over and we talked. She talked about her mom [inaudible] commit suicide, or was trying to commit suicide and her dad was being nonchalant and that severely upset her.
Patton: That‐she told you that on that Sunday.
McGowan: On that Sunday. Everything that I’m telling you now is what she told me Sunday. Um‐
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: So, I‐I messed up a fishing pole so I’m actually sitting there realigning my pole real good and watching TV. I live by myself. So, basically that’s what happened on‐Sunday‐Sunday’s my meal prep day, laundry, everything like‐I wear [inaudible] sweatshirts a day, [inaudible] hoodies a day. So, I have to wash all these, all the britches, underwear, socks, shirts, everything. So, I had to do that. So, I did that. Uh, with that being said she‐she talked about that, she went into [inaudible] with that. Don’t really know all the details, I was [inaudible] I’m not a therapist, but at the same time, I’m a listener.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
McGowan: I’m a good listener. But uh, then it moved on to uh a party‐some kind of party uh, that Staats had and whatnot. And um whenever, whenever that party happened apparently it was some kind of hot tub party on Staats’ boat on Center Hill. And uh, I don’t know the date and I don’t know who all was there but the only person, the only two people that I know that were there was David Durham and Eric Staats. Um, David Durham‐she kept saying that her bra, her top kept falling down and exposing herself or whatnot and that Eric was very protective of her. Like, Eric wouldn’t let nobody go near her but she said she was severely drunk or whatnot and you could tell this‐the story kind of got my attention. So, that’s what you’re getting more details about.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
McGowan: So uh, I was like “You didn’t do anything with David?” And she said uh, “No, no.” Well, okay. Backing up, this story was second, this is the second story because I‐the first story, I’m going to tell you about that. But this story finishes, she’s like “No, I didn’t.” and I’m like, “Why?” You know, her‐it seemed like he wanted it because apparently he was making “come fuck me eyes.” Her words, not mine, “come fuck me eyes” to her while she was in that um‐in that hot tub and um, then she uh Staats put her in one of the rooms. When she was in the room, David came in and like took a hit of her vape and she was aware enough to know that it was David, to hear David when he walked out. He didn’t do anything, they didn’t do anything, [inaudible] then he kind of uh encountered [inaudible] and that was it. But the story before, was‐oh my god. So, the story before that, after you get done writing I’ll tell you.
Patton: Go ahead.
McGowan: Alright so, the story before that was, apparently, I don’t know the date, didn’t ask, I don’t ever ask details because, especially my personal life, I don’t care.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
McGowan: I don’t care. If it’s work, I’ll ask details because it’s got to go in the book but her‐her, PMag, Pmag’s wife and J‐Jed all had like a‐
Patton: Who’s Jed?
McGowan: Her husband.
Patton: Oh, Okay. Okay, her, her husband, PMag, and his wife. Okay.
McGowan: Yeah.
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: All of these people, those four got together, uh they were drinking and [inaudible] her house. Um, with that being said she‐this is her story. Her story was that Jedediah‐Jed‐Jedediah and um PMag’s wife, which I don’t even know her name, she just said PMag’s wife, went to the bedroom and it was understood what was going on. They were going to do a swap and uh, and uh they went to a bedroom, they disappeared in a bedroom. Well, when they disappeared in the bedroom they took it as “hey, it’s going down.” So, Meagan and PMag hooked up and they did it or whatnot and uh, she started making fun of him because she said uh‐uh P‐P was so, turned on about it because he actually finished really fast or whatnot. And uh, and they were‐they were done but somebody, I don’t know which one of them walked into the room, she couldn’t tell who walked into the room while they were doing it, but one of Jed or PMag’s wife walked into the room and saw, and went back into the room, well they didn’t get interrupted or anything but after that day she was pissed off because it was‐she said that Jed came to her and confronted her and said that she had cheated on him.
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: And‐and Jed was like “You know, you can’t be doing this kind of stuff, you’re cheating on me, you cheated on me with your best friend and that’s not right.” And I was‐you know, of course I asked her, how‐how is it cheating if y’all were swapping? You know, that’s‐that’s where it didn’t make sense to me but uh, she said it was‐she said, “I don’t know, it’s just [inaudible] and it’s like nobody else can touch me but he can have whatever, whenever.” Um, now on my other phone, this is a new phone, worst phone ever, I hate this phone. Worst phone ever, but on my other phone I can‐I can grab it if you need to see it or whatnot. She sent me a picture of Jed and some other girl or whatnot.
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: Apparently, they‐they do threesomes. They do threesomes where they invite girls in but never a guy. So, but that’s tolerated but they can’t, they don’t never do, she said Jed would never do a threesome with a guy.
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: Or whatnot. You don’t know her but I don’t‐I’m sorry.
Patton: Okay, alright. Keep going.
McGowan: For the record, I’m‐I’m going to pause. For the record, nobody knows this but I am very serious about someone and we’re‐we’re probably going to get married. So, just saying I’m not‐I’m not into this. [inaudible] But anyway.
Patton: Someone at work?
McGowan: No.
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: No.
Patton: I‐I mean‐
McGowan: No, I learned my lesson a long time ago you can’t‐
Patton: I was going to say I read some records from a long time ago.
McGowan: Yeah, a long time ago you can’t‐you can’t mix that, nope. Nobody at work.
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: But um‐
Patton: Well that’s great [inaudible] you know, if you’re going to [inaudible] up.
McGowan: I’m‐I’m done, I’m done. [inaudible] well, my son he [inaudible] Um so, with that being said uh, they uh, they got into it and they got into a very heated argument or whatnot and they got into an argument about her always going out to like parties or get togethers [inaudible] with seconds or whatnot. Excuse me, I’m sorry.
Patton: It’s okay.
McGowan: But and that was it. Then it led to‐it led to the‐the second shift, or the hot tub party. So, that’s how the story goes. It’s out of series but it’s the same thing.
Patton: Okay, okay.
McGowan: So, he just put a mark like, put that one up before‐
Patton: Mm‐hmm, mm‐hmm. So, this‐
McGowan: So, that’s all I know about [inaudible].
Patton: ‐the Hall, husband, PMag and wife, that happened before the staff party?
McGowan: Yeah.
Patton: Okay. Who else on second shift has she had intimate relations with, that you know about?
McGowan: Know about, no‐now that I’ve heard‐
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: I’ve heard PMag, I’ve heard PMag, I’ve heard uh Lewis, I’ve heard uh PMag, Lewis, PMag, Lewis‐
Patton: And do you remember who you heard about PMag and Lewis from?
McGowan: I can’t recall that, I promise I’d tell you I just‐I don’t know.
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: Now, Lewis‐Lewis, okay. Is this confidential?
Patton: It is until I write my report and it goes public record. It’s while the investigation’s open.
McGowan: So‐
Patton: It’s confidential but anything that I put for‐
McGowan: So, my name’s going to be in the report?
Patton: ‐the Administrator or City‐City Attorney to look at. Because this is a very significant allegation.
McGowan: I get it.
Patton: So, what I‐what I’m looking‐so, can I pause you?
McGowan: Yes.
Patton: Okay. What I’m looking for information on is, is he going to talk to you?
McGowan: No, probably not, but.
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: [inaudible] the shit out of him, if he does.
Patton: I’m looking for information on the‐the information that the Mayor said to me.
McGowan: What information is that?
Patton: Three parts.
McGowan: Oh‐okay. I didn’t know there was parts‐
Patton: Part number one.
McGowan: Okay.
Patton: Is that before I got here there was an investigation in PD
McGowan: Oh yeah, on second shift.
Patton: ‐on second shift, with someone named Olivia.
McGowan: Yes.
Patton: Okay. I don’t know who that is. They got resolved, the next comment was‐
McGowan: That shit didn’t get resolved.
Patton: ‐well, I mean like‐that‐the investigation happened or whatever.
McGowan: Yeah, yeah.
Patton: Then I don’t mean resolved like‐wh‐whatever, I mean this was‐they’re gone.
McGowan: Okay.
Patton: So, he said “It’s happening again.” I said, “Okay.” And what he told me was the information that he received from his, that’s what he said, “my source” is that Meagan Hall, Lewis Powell, PMag, um, and Larry Holladay have had intimate relationships, some while on duty.
McGowan: Never heard the on duty part. Never heard the on duty part.
Patton: And so, that was that. And um, so, Olivia happening again and these were the three names, on duty. Oh, and then the third thing was and then there was a “girls gone wild hot tub party” that happened at Eric Staats’ house. That’s what I‐that’s the information, okay. So, I‐the Mayor suggested that I send an email reminding everybody of the [inaudible] policy. That says if you have an intimate relationship at work, you need to notify your supervisor, director of HR, or City Administrator, okay. Well, I told him that no, I can’t‐I can’t do that, because you’ve laid this on my desk, I need to look into it now. It’s not an email.
McGowan: Yeah.
Patton: So, I’ve been looking into it this week, okay.
McGowan: Okay.
Patton: And every conversation that I’ve had this week, I’ve said, I started an investigation, I’m going to ask you questions that may seem vague because I’m looking to confirm the information I already have. Right? That’s what I’ve said to people, before talking to you and I’ve confirmed all the information.
McGowan: Everything that I’ve said.
Patton: I knew everything that you’ve told me so far.
McGowan: Okay. Honestly, this is out of her mouth, that was out of her mouth, I didn’t ask for the information, I didn’t pry‐
Patton: So, I’m going to ask you some specific questions because it would help me, okay.
McGowan: Okay.
Patton: Because you mentioned Lewis Powell.
McGowan: Okay.
Patton: Okay. So, she told you about Lewis?
McGowan: She didn’t tell me about Lewis.
Patton: You don’t remember who?
McGowan: No.
Patton: Okay. Is it‐this is a subjective question‐
McGowan: That would pretty much implement a lot of people.
Patton: Yeah, this is not a small investigation.
McGowan: Yeah.
Patton: So, with Lewis and again, subjective question, is it outside of the realm of possibility?
McGowan: No.
Patton: Okay. Um, I have information that this happened on duty, I have confirmation that it happened on duty. I’m looking for additional confirmation.
McGowan: Okay. Well, that part I’ve never heard.
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: That part I’ve never heard and that has never been confirmed.
Patton: To you?
McGowan: To me, yeah.
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: That’s why I didn’t say it.
Patton: Okay. Um, I knew all of this, I had all of that already. Um, what do you know about Larry Holladay?
McGowan: Nothing about him.
Patton: Nothing?
McGowan: The only thing I know about Larry Holladay is they had a party, which is in my old‐my old phone, they had a party over there and she was there.
Patton: Okay. Do you remember what kind of party it was?
McGowan: Uh, football‐football uh‐uh‐they were watching football. I don’t know what game, it was a game, but and that’s all I know.
Patton: Okay. Do you know anybody else that was there?
McGowan: No, she texted me and told me that.
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: Like I said, I’m Papa Bear, everybody fucking talks to me.
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: But when this gets out, ain’t nobody gonna talk to me. But anyway, go ahead.
Patton: Um, what do you know about her sending nudes to people on shift?
McGowan: She‐she‐on shift, no.
Patton: I don’t mean, I’m sorry, not‐not on duty but like‐
McGowan: She sent it to me‐
Patton: Okay. Have you received them?
McGowan: Yes, I have.
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: Yes.
Patton: Who do you know has also received them?
McGowan: That I don’t know.
Patton: Anybody?
McGowan: I don’t talk about it, I don’t talk about that.
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: So, yeah. I don’t‐you’re the only one that knows.
Patton: Lucky me.
McGowan: Like I said, I’ve got the receipts, the receipts are right here.
Patton: Yeah. I would love to see, but I want to answer the questions first and then read the texts.
McGowan: Okay, okay.
Patton: I’ve read a lot of texts this week, just so you know.
McGowan: Okay.
Patton: Um, more than I would like to‐to‐okay. Um so, you’ve received them, you don’t know anybody that received them and no other Officer or staff has come to you and said “bro.”
McGowan: No, no, nobody, nobody.
Patton: Okay, okay. Um, have you spoken‐well you did say you’re texting with Meagan currently.
McGowan: Yeah.
Patton: Did she call you last week?
McGowan: Yeah, well she‐
Patton: After Sunday.
McGowan: After Sunday? No.
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: No, not that I‐I don’t want to misspeak, I mean, look. After Sunday, so Sunday was the 4th?
Patton: Yeah, that’s what you said, December 4th text.
McGowan: December 4th, December 4th, alright. So, we’re at December 4th, 4th, Meagan Hall, 4th. Lewis, [inaudible]. Why don’t I just do this? Shit, shit. I just accidentally called.
Patton: Mm‐hmm, mm‐hmm.
McGowan: Okay. Don’t do that, this is today‐I’m sorry.
Patton: That’s okay, nothing‐oh, that’s all I
McGowan: I thought that was going to like, show me all of‐I’m not‐I’m not that guy, no.
Patton: Okay. So, after she left on Sunday you didn’t talk with her on Monday or Tuesday?
McGowan: No.
Patton: Did she call you last Thursday?
McGowan: Last Thursday. [inaudible]
Patton: Okay. When‐when did the most recent text string start?
McGowan: Uh‐
Patton: Did it start again on Monday of this week?
McGowan: ‐it started up…So, that’s December‐
Patton: That’s the 4th, yep.
McGowan: ‐that’s the 4th, [inaudible] yes, you’re correct, I’m on my way, [inaudible] dress cute, to feel good about myself, uh, I said, “You don’t have to. Park beside the Dodge truck.” And then yesterday.
Patton: Yesterday?
McGowan: Yesterday was the first text, and she said [inaudible] of course, everybody‐if you’re talking about bass fishing or working out, everybody‐
Patton: Okay, okay.
McGowan: ‐everybody knows about me‐
Patton: Has she‐has she ever mentioned to you that she wanted to commit suicide?
McGowan: No, no.
Patton: Has she told you where she was this last week?
McGowan: No, no. Now that’s‐this is, that’s all.
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: [inaudible]
Patton: Um, have you spoken to, texted with, had any communications, in the last 24 hours, with Lewis Powell?
McGowan: Yes.
Patton: What did that sound like?
McGowan: It sounded like, he said uh, he wanted me to check his reports if he gave me his uh [inaudible] to check his reports or whatnot. I didn’t ask any questions or nothing. I said, “You good?” he said, “No.” and I was like, “Bro, I don’t know that system on‐I don’t check my own reports because‐“
Patton: Police reports?
McGowan: Police reports, yeah, yeah. I don’t even know that system to check‐we’re not even up‐we’re not even logging reports right now.
Patton: Right, right [inaudible] the change over.
McGowan: [inaudible]
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: [inaudible]
Patton: Was the entire‐100% of the conversation around reports?
McGowan: Yeah.
Patton: He‐he didn’t share anything else?
McGowan: No.
Patton: Okay. Have you had any communication today with Larry Holladay?
McGowan: Larry Holladay? No.
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: I haven’t talked to Larry in, since last Sunday.
Patton: Okay. Have you talked at all since 5 o’clock last night, with David Durham?
McGowan: I don’t talk to David Durham.
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: At all.
Patton: Okay. Would there be any reason that you can think of why somebody would tell me that you were involved with Meagan Hall?
McGowan: I’m the rumor guy, so, I’m the rumor guy, I’m the guy, I pretty much slept with everybody there at the City, you get what I’m saying? I’m that guy.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
McGowan: Just being‐just being straight up honest, that like I said, you’re the only one that knows and I pretty much, I have a fiancé. Nobody knows that.
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: And that’s the way I like my business. My‐
Patton: Yeah.
McGowan: You can talk all you want to.
Patton: Yeah, and‐and‐and I didn’t say this up front but I’ve told every single person this.
McGowan: Uh‐huh.
Patton: Um, what you‐you collectively, you, everybody else that I’ve spoken to, what you guys do on your personal time, I have no concern over. It’s not my business.
McGowan: Mm‐hmm, yeah.
Patton: Um, what happens here in this little set up, not my business.
McGowan: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: However, when you know, in the handbook it talks about personal relationships and says if you, you know I think I mentioned this earlier, if you have personal issues, you have to report it. Um, if those things are happening outside of work and don’t affect work, I have no issues.
McGowan: Okay.
Patton: If they affect work, now the City has an issue.
McGowan: Right.
Patton: And that’s why we’re here, I’m doing all this work this week, because now it’s affecting work.
McGowan: Got you.
Patton: And reportedly happening at work. Obviously, very concerning, right? Would you agree with me that it’s not a wise move to engage in any kind of sexual act while at work?
McGowan: Don’t get your meat where you get your bread.
Patton: Don’t dip your pen in the company ink.
McGowan: Don’t fish in the company pond.
Patton: Okay. So, so, you’re saying no. No relations with Meagan.
McGowan: No, no. Nope.
Patton: Never have?
McGowan: Never have.
Patton: When she came over her house, she’s not gonna‐
McGowan: When she came over‐
Patton: When she came over to your house on Sunday, there will be nothing there.
McGowan: Yeah, no. No.
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: I’m going to go in depth with this, okay. I’ve got a 26‐year‐old daughter, no I’m sorry, yeah, 26‐year‐old daughter. [inaudible] That’s fucking nasty, bro.
Patton: It does mess with the mind a little bit, doesn’t it?
McGowan: You know how many motherfuckers I’ve told that to?
Patton: Mm‐hmm. Okay.
McGowan: It’s fucking nasty. Sorry.
Patton: Do you know of anybody else in your building?
McGowan: In my building?
Patton: Who’s name would have been told to me.
McGowan: No. Nobody else in my building.
Patton: Okay. There’s one other name that’s on the table but I’m just wondering why that would be but if you don’t know about it, that’s okay.
McGowan: No, I don’t know about it.
Patton: Okay, okay.
McGowan: No, nobody in my damn building.
Patton: Alright, can‐are you okay if I look at what you said I can look at earlier?
McGowan: Yeah.
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: [inaudible]
Patton: [inaudible] Oh, that’s sweet. What’s her name?
McGowan: [inaudible]
Patton: That’s sweet. Does she live local?
McGowan: No, she lives in Goodlettsville.
Patton: Oh, okay.
McGowan: But, I’m about to go there Friday.
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: But yeah, she’s 26 and Meagan’s 26. That’s fucking gross. My rule is, 40 years old with something to lose and a bank account, my rules. Sorry.
Patton: Not a bad‐but now you’re getting married, so.
McGowan: She’s 40 years old, got a large company, and a huge bank account.
Patton: Okay, okay, alright, okay.
McGowan: Where do you want to start?
Patton: I just‐I can go backwards, I’ll just, I’ll start at the bottom. Okay. Alright, so this we said, this was [inaudible] from yesterday.
McGowan: That’s yesterday right there and then today is‐just keep going.
Patton: Okay. So, she says “especially ever since I got back home” you said, “good deal” what does that mean to you?
McGowan: Not a fucking thing.
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: I knew about‐I’m in the know about her going because I had to go get her guns and the car.
Patton: Okay. So, you did know.
McGowan: I do know that she went.
Patton: Okay, okay. I didn’t know that necessarily that you went.
McGowan: Yeah, I’m in the know. I’m in the know. I’m the secret squirrel [inaudible] in the dirt.
Patton: But you’re not, you’re saying you’re not the one that talked to Jason?
McGowan: No, I’m not the one that talked to Jason.
Patton: Who is the one that talked to Jason?
McGowan: That’s a good question. I didn’t talk to Jason.
Patton: Who set up the‐who set up the 2 o’clock meeting today with me?
McGowan: Jason set up the 2 o’clock meeting. I can show you that text too. This part right here, she was hot and heavy and I was making excuses because I don’t‐don’t want nothing to do with her and you can see how far ago that was. Not‐
Patton: Yeah, back in November. Do you know who the‐oh, this is V.
McGowan: Huh?
Patton: I’m reading this‐I’m reading this about her about how‐
McGowan: I have no idea.
Patton: Do you know what Officer V did last night? She texted you, “No, what?” “She texted that I need you, 10‐19.” What’s 10‐19?
McGowan: At the station.
Patton: At the station. “She went to Russell and they went to see her and [inaudible].”
McGowan: So, apparently, we need to have another meeting.
Patton: You and me?
McGowan: Yeah.
Patton: About what?
McGowan: This.
Patton: What is that? Well, don’t tell me yet, I want to stay focused.
McGowan: Yeah. You’re [inaudible]. As you can see there’s a lot of no replies.
Patton: Yeah. A lot of it is talk about being sick, back in November.
McGowan: Because I didn’t want‐I didn’t want nothing to do with her. That’s a video.
Patton: This is her?
McGowan: That’s her. The video.
Patton: Uh, hold on. So, when she says things like “no sex or anything, since you’re sick.” That’s her trying to‐
McGowan: Trying to.
Patton: But you guys never‐
McGowan: Nope. Not once.
Patton: Is that a phone call? Okay.
McGowan: Hang on a second, okay.
Patton: Uh. I mean, you know, again, not affecting at work it could be a little, you know. The thing with the back and forths potentially, but.
McGowan: I’m not going to deny that.
Patton: Mm‐hmm. What is this? This a steroid pack?
McGowan: Yeah, that’s my Z‐pack because I stayed sick‐
Patton: [inaudible] Prednisone, oh, okay.
McGowan: Yeah, I stayed sick for a month.
Patton: Okay. So, she’s hitting on you for‐
McGowan: Hard, bad.
Patton: ‐a long time.
McGowan: Yes, hard, bad, and‐and you can see, never come over for it. Never “hey, let’s hook up.” Never. I can even get my phone records printed off for that shit. [inaudible] Ricky Bobby. And I’ll talk shit, I mean that’s what I do but at the same time, some of that shit, those right there, I never even said anything about them. I don’t care.
Patton: So, she‐so, um‐so she has a thing about feet, or something.
McGowan: Yeah, she’s got a foot fetish as you can see, she took all of this‐I didn’t even say nothing‐
Patton: Is that at‐this is at work?
McGowan: No.
Patton: This is at a fitness center?
McGowan: I have no idea where she’s at, but she’s not at work cause our gym is not that nice.
Patton: I’ve never even been to your gym.
McGowan: It’s [inaudible].
Patton: Hmm. I mean I see it like. So, this is interesting. I’ve seen this text on many phones. It‐it appears to be the intro, the “I miss you” thing. Um, so, you’ve got lots of “I’m sick, I’m sorry.” And then she gets mad at you for not responding.
McGowan: Yep. I’m not fucking that girl. Sorry, I’m not‐I’m not going to do it. I’ll boost your ego, “Yeah, you look good. Hey, yeah, that’s nice.” And whatnot, but we are not going to have sex, I’m sorry. As you can see a lot of that shit, I don’t even respond to.
Patton: Yeah, I see that. There’s just‐yeah, lots of texting.
McGowan: If you look at her phone it’s going to match up perfectly.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
McGowan: That one right there, she was‐that was the day I got drug tested. I was in that school right there and she was texting me and asking me and I’m like “No, I’m in school.”
Patton: Mm‐hmm. Has she had any‐have there been any conversations with her this week about the investigation? Does she have any idea this is happening?
McGowan: I have not talked to her, buddy.
Patton: Okay. Just‐just the texts that I read.
McGowan: That’s it, that’s it, bro.
Patton: You get this because you do it.
McGowan: Yeah.
Patton: You understand how sensitive‐
McGowan: Yeah, I do and that’s why I’m asking‐answering every one of your questions.
Patton: Yeah.
McGowan: I’m not involved in this‐this is not my‐my issue is this.
Patton: I‐I‐I actually agree with you.
McGowan: This is my issue.
Patton: I actually agree with you and here’s why, and again, you do this, what I’m doing, you do for a living.
McGowan: Yeah.
Patton: Okay. But I take the information and I try to validate it. All week long, I’ve been validating information and then all of a sudden I get your name and somebody else’s name [inaudible].
McGowan: Okay.
Patton: And I’m‐I‐I get suspicious of the one‐offs. It just feels like somebody is just throwing out names. So, when you‐when you rolled up with me I’m like “Okay, well. I’ll ask him now because we’re sitting together.” But, I actually believe you and based on what I just read on your‐
McGowan: Hold on one second. Hold on.
Patton: Okay. Is that who called you?
McGowan: Yeah, he called me and then uh, [inaudible] my niece. So, yeah as you can see I have nothing‐
Patton: Based on what you just showed me that supports that. So, I don’t have‐I don’t have concerns about that.
McGowan: Yeah, and whoever it is at CID
Patton: I don’t have any confirmation on that either.
McGowan: The only person that‐that‐there’s two, I‐I don’t talk (redacted under cover) much. (redacted under cover) in my unit (redacted under cover) very closed off and I know why, I know why. But he’s not that‐he’s not that guy. But I don’t talk (redacted under cover) and I don’t talk to Tanner or uh, Fracker.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
McGowan: And I definitely don’t talk to David.
Patton: So, obviously there’s something there. The way you’re saying it leads to‐there’s something there. Some kind of personality thing or something. You know, I’m just saying.
McGowan: No, he‐I know something‐he said, okay. So, those are the four people. Everybody else, we’re [inaudible] I see them on the weekends, fishing and everything else, but.
Patton: And you‐have you ever gone to these after shift hang outs?
McGowan: No, [inaudible] fish.
Patton: Okay, okay. So, I guess the only other question, I’m just thinking through everything I’ve learned. Where did the Mayor get the on duty thing from?
McGowan: Brother, I don’t know. The on duty thing‐
Patton: Who are the‐can you‐are you willing to tell me the two people that you talked to?
McGowan: [inaudible]
Patton: You said “I talk to two people that are close to him.”
McGowan: That‐yeah, one of them is close but I can’t‐I can’t do that.
Patton: If I said the name, would you be able to confirm it?
McGowan: With my silence.
Patton: Is it Laura Davidson? Okay.
McGowan: [inaudible] that never came out of my mouth.
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: To anybody.
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: Because I’ve never heard, I’ve never heard that.
Patton: Is this the triangle that’s set up today?
McGowan: What do you mean?
Patton: Our meeting today.
McGowan: No, it’s straight up Jason.
Patton: He told you to meet me?
McGowan: He told‐yeah.
Patton: And you didn’t know why you were meeting me?
McGowan: No, I thought it was this.
Patton: Yeah, that. Can I see that text with Jason?
McGowan: Yeah.
Patton: Why did we leave the boat dock thing or whatever, the dam thing, whatever that was?
McGowan: Just making sure nobody was following you.
Patton: Oh, I didn’t think about that.
McGowan: I’m good. [inaudible]
Patton: Well, there was this car that rolled up before me and looked like it was going to back in with me but went ahead and‐couple guys got out to go fishing.
McGowan: Oh, okay.
Patton: When you came up hot I was like, I didn’t‐I was like “Wait, I recognize that truck.” And you rolled your window down.
McGowan: You were behind me whenever you came off [inaudible].
Patton: I was?
McGowan: I made sure nobody came in behind you‐
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: ‐and then I saw somebody did come in behind you.
Patton: That little‐that little car.
McGowan: Then I saw that person get out because I was on the other side.
Patton: Yeah. Okay.
McGowan: I’m good, man.
Patton: Yeah‐we‐we’ve confirmed that already. I have a text from you like “I’m doing my job, bro.”
McGowan: You’ve seen my car a hundred times‐you’ve seen me a hundred times but you [inaudible]
Patton: Well and that’s the thing like, even when I was pulling out I was like “This doesn’t make any sense.” You and I talk all the time.
McGowan: Correct.
Patton: You would not be afraid, in my opinion, you would not be afraid to come in like “I’ve got some shit to tell you.”
McGowan: Once again, [inaudible].
Patton: Pretty strong.
McGowan: [inaudible] destroyed my unit. With my own eyes, did you know that there was a DEA meeting with Chip yesterday or‐not yesterday, but the day that you uh, you met with him. I know about that.
Patton: Um, Monday. I pulled him out of a meeting, I don’t know what it was.
McGowan: It was a meeting with the‐the DEA guy over (redacted under cover). Guess who wasn’t invited to that. Guess who was. Konrad Kaul, and Brent Hatcher. Two people that absolutely know nothing about investigations. So, why not call the guy that’s over it?
Patton: [inaudible, reading through texts] “(redacted under cover) was over at City Hall? Saw him out back” [inaudible] “He’s Chip’s‐“ (redacted under cover)?
McGowan: Yeah.
Patton: “Well tomorrow, where and when do you want to meet with Andrew?”
McGowan: That’s why I thought‐I thought this was all about Page
Patton: That. Whatever that is, okay.
McGowan: Yes. Now you can see, you can confirm that I did not‐
Patton: Yeah.
McGowan: I had no clue about‐I was blindsided by this.
Patton: Yeah, okay.
McGowan: Like a [inaudible].
Patton: Yeah, I can tell.
McGowan: Because I wasn’t ready for this. But you can see I’m ready for [inaudible].
Patton: Yeah.
McGowan: I put people in prison, you know what I mean?
Patton: Yeah, I know.
McGowan: They don’t go to jail, they go to prison.
Patton: I know, I know.
McGowan: I don’t play around.
Patton: I know and this is why this is such a serious investigation too, because things that are being told to me and confirmed.
McGowan: Yeah, the on duty thing, I’m sorry. I can’t ride with that because I’ve never heard that. Not one time.
Patton: Okay. Well‐
McGowan: Off duty, yeah.
Patton: Again, off duty, it doesn’t affect employment, go however you’d like.
McGowan: Yeah.
Patton: The problem is, is that now that it’s affecting staffing uh, you know‐
McGowan: I understand, I understand.
Patton: ‐the job, the employment, the city, the risk, right?
McGowan: Yeah.
Patton: Because you know the headline, the headline if this gets out.
McGowan: Yeah, I do. [inaudible]
Patton: The headline‐the headline doesn’t tell you names. The headline just puts the whole department under the ground.
McGowan: Yep.
Patton: So, that’s what we’re trying to dig through. Well, I think that’s all on this. I can’t impress upon you the importance of obviously not talking to Meagan about all of it. I will be talking to her on Friday.
McGowan: Okay.
Patton: She does probably not have any idea that I’m talking to her about this but, I’ll be talking to her on Friday.
McGowan: [inaudible]
Patton: I’m still learning.
McGowan: This is LaVergne, I’m telling you right now. It’s just‐just like you said, [inaudible] and it’s like “No, sorry.”
Patton: Mm‐hmm, mm‐hmm.
McGowan: I mean, I just think that’s creepy as fuck.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
McGowan: I was twenty‐one years old when she was born‐she was born. That’s fucking gross, man.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
McGowan: Sorry, that’s just me.
Patton: Yeah, it’s not criminal but it’s illegal in the mind, that’s for sure.
McGowan: Yep. That’s number one, but you know number one point two, is you don’t get your fucking meat where you get your bread.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
McGowan: Don’t fuck somebody that you work with, man. Even‐even if they’re just the hottest thing ever.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
McGowan: No, there’s somebody up for [inaudible].
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
McGowan: And I found her. God.
Patton: Good for you, good for you.
McGowan: Lord mercy, Jesus. But, yeah she’s hot. Oh my god, she’s got her own business, come on, man. Sorry, my bad.
Patton: Alright. So, what did you bring me? What did you think you we were coming to talk about?
McGowan: We’ll talk about that later. You’re busy. I want your full attention on this.
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: This is‐this is huge.
Patton: Is that internal too?
McGowan: This is‐this goes all the way to the top. Matter of fact, this is the top.
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: It’s right there in black and white.
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: Email, I got one email that’s important and [inaudible] email. [inaudible] and I’ve got the numbers. It’s‐and there’s something else that I don’t have access to but if you look at it, it’s, and another thing if you put David Durham under the microscope, he’ll fold. He’ll fold every time.
Patton: On this, or that?
McGowan: Anything. Anything. He’ll fold, he’ll fold.
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: I‐the thing, alright. I could have like I said, there’s a policy against rumors. I don’t know if it’s a policy or a [inaudible]. But, there’s something out there about rumors because it’s the very first thing that Chip did as Chief was talk about rumors. So, number one, me, I make thirty‐seven dollars an hour.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
McGowan: Fuck you, I’m not getting caught up in that.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
McGowan: And once again, I make thirty‐seven dollars an hour. Meagan? Kiss my ass.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
McGowan: Not for real! Metaphorically.
Patton: Any other day, any other day but today. Any other day but today.
McGowan: But metaphorically, kiss my ass. But, no. I’m not going to‐I’m not going to risk my job, I have too much to lose. I’ve got a son in college. Uh, I’ve got to make the money I make or I would be gone last year to be honest with you. Just‐just, when my son graduates, I’m out of here. I’m out of here.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
McGowan: I‐I can’t‐I can’t take another year of Chip. I can’t do it. Transparency, my ass.
Patton: And how‐how old is he, what did you say? Your son.
McGowan: He’s twenty, he’ll be twenty‐one‐
Patton: Oh, he’s finishing college?
McGowan: No, he’s just a sophomore.
Patton: Oh, he’s a sophomore. He start‐started later?
McGowan: Uh, well he, yeah. No, he didn’t‐he started right out of high school.
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: But uh he plays‐he plays ball at (redacted school) for uh, for uh‐
Patton: Oh, nice.
McGowan: So, he’s on scholarship.
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: I’ve got to pay the rest of it.
Patton: So, he’s got two more years.
McGowan: He’s got two more years.
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: And‐and possibly three.
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: So, after that [inaudible].
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: I can’t deal with that no more, I’d rather go somewhere else, I know it’s going to be the same bullshit.
Patton: It always is.
McGowan: I just want to be ignorant to it.
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: Just‐just go out and write tickets. Make arrests. No longer investigations, I don’t want to be in charge of nobody, I just want to do my time.
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: Until I retire. Which, I don’t know when.
Patton: Okay. Well, whatever that is um, I will be tied up on this another week.
McGowan: Just let me know. Matter of fact, while we’re here, can I have your personal number?
Patton: Yeah.
McGowan: Okay.
Patton: Yep.
McGowan: I promise I won’t send you penis pictures.
Patton: Thank you, thank you.
McGowan: I’m sorry.
Patton: My kids‐my kids who are like “Can I have your phone for Amazon”? They would appreciate that.
McGowan: Is it (Personal Phone Number Redacted) or?
Patton: Yep, yep, (Personal Phone Number Redacted)
McGowan: (Personal Phone Number Redacted).
Patton: Yep. Um, but if you want to use yours or you want my undivided attention, if that isn’t time sensitive, then probably a week‐week and a half is when I’ll be done with this.
McGowan: It’s not time sensitive, because‐
Patton: But I can, I can squeeze it in if you need me to. Or we can talk about it now, whatever you’d like. You came with it all, I can take it all too. So, you tell me what you want to do.
McGowan: I get what you’re saying. Just uh, alright, so.
Patton: Tell me about it.
McGowan: Unfair promotions.
Patton: Unfair promotions, okay.
McGowan: Unfair promotions, unfair hiring.
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: Well, I don’t know which part of the [inaudible] spectrum [inaudible] you can look at me and tell by my‐I’m‐I’m a Conservative. And I don’t‐I don’t care nothing about politics in general, but I am a Conservative. I’m Christian, [inaudible] got my son in a (redacted school), you know what I’m saying? [inaudible] (redacted) school, he’s in uh, (redacted school) right now at a (redacted school). And uh, I’m not the most out‐front Christian, but I am very, very religious.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
McGowan: And um, right now, it’s all about right now.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
McGowan: [inaudible] Do what you did.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
McGowan: And if I do something wrong, I will‐do whatever you got to do, it’s nothing personal, I’ll still text you dick pics and everything, you know. I’m glad we’re off campus. But‐but uh, I’m not going to, I’m a, this dude, man. Jarve shouldn’t have been hired.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
McGowan: Number one. Jarve fucked, he got fucked in the background by the most quasi‐fair detective we got. Which is my buddy, uh, Bobby. Bobby said we shouldn’t have hired this guy. And then we have, we spent all this money, all this time with this guy.
Patton: You mean because of a background issue?
McGowan: Because of the background check. Why‐that’s an automatic [inaudible]
Patton: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
McGowan: But because you’re a [inaudible], you get hired. But you’re not, you’re in the same [inaudible] as the Chief.
Patton: Hmm.
McGowan: And like I said, David will fold. Because David was told to look at this, you’re the head, you’re the Lieutenant, if your boss tells you “You need to look at this again, we need you to look at this again.” What the fuck do you think is going to happen? What does that say? [inaudible] Really? Why would you do that? But the most, I guess benefit of the doubt detective, ever says no. Where are we at now?
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
McGowan: How much money have we wasted? And this guy wouldn’t have even cut the mustard if he would have passed.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
McGowan: That [inaudible] that too. But‐
Patton: He came in no call, no show.
McGowan: Yeah. But, this is my very first interviews as‐at the Sergeant over Narcotics. And I gave the panel’s opinion over who should be promoted. I got first, second, the number three was promoted. This is the proof.
Patton: Who was promoted?
McGowan: (Redacted under cover).
Patton: (Redacted under cover) was promoted.
McGowan: (Redacted under cover) should have never been in Narcotics. Right now he’s getting spoon fed everything, everything and then on top of it, like I said, I hear everything. I hear every fucking thing. I’m a Papa Bear. I hear everything. For him to do this shit.
Patton: So, the green folders are your‐
McGowan: These are the official, these are the original, that’s why they’re in this plastic.
Patton: Almost a notebook.
McGowan: The notebook is just my notes.
Patton: Your notes?
McGowan: My notes, yeah.
Patton: Okay, okay.
McGowan: [inaudible] what‐what’s going on around here and what I did, what I observed and what I
know to be fact, just takes a little digging. The only thing you have to do is ask for a couple of [inaudible]
Patton: Okay. Do you want me to take all of that?
McGowan: No, I’m not giving this to you right now.
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: Because I [inaudible] want your undivided attention.
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: And uh, [inaudible] but I just, if any‐you can use this for the future. In the future, you need to really look.
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: Look at what’s going on.
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: And I’ve heard from his own mouth that he’s going to do something, some kind of thing and he’s very vindictive, um, Steve Crotts is your best detective over there. I’m not saying that because I like the dude, look at the cases that he works. Look at the prison time that he’s‐he’s given people [inaudible]. Steve Crotts ain’t got a chance in hell of doing anything else because we have a vindictive, hyper‐emotional, taking it personal, Chief. So, Crotts’ career is where he’s going to be unless he can figure out a way to get up out there. Because [inaudible] right now, everything is Patrol minded, nothing investigations, um [inaudible], he’s said he don’t give a shit about the drug fund.
Patton: You mentioned that to me before.
McGowan: Yeah, didn’t give a shit about the drug fund and it’s like wow, I’ve never heard a Chief anywhere, ever, saying anything like that. But um, you’re talking about uniforms, the [inaudible] whatever, [inaudible]. So, I don’t know what happened in that meeting yesterday. All I know is he signed the paperwork for (redacted under cover) to stay another year [inaudible] I know that’s a big problem. He’s been there twelve years.
Patton: At the DEA?
McGowan: it’s supposed to be a three‐year assignment. He’s been there twelve years. Mike Walker let it go on, Chip was supposed to stop it. Chip did not.
Patton: Hm. I don’t know anything about that.
McGowan: That’s what I’m saying, there’s a lot people don’t know. And the only people that are in the know is the people that are keeping their fucking mouths shut. They make thirty‐seven dollars an hour and then they’re respected and talked to and everybody talks to them and that’s why‐I‐I like it that way. I like people to be able to you know, kind of like, with me and you.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
McGowan: I can talk‐you think I’m afraid to talk to you?
Patton: Well that’s, I was like‐
McGowan: Seriously?
Patton: I was like, “I don’t understand why.” I mean I’ve spent a year trying to build relationships, like, you can come talk to me.
McGowan: Bro.
Patton: We might not always agree, and I can’t always say yes or no to whatever it is that you want or don’t want. But we can talk about it.
McGowan: 100% honest, man.
Patton: I‐I was told by Jason that the reason that this person doesn’t come talk with me is because they don’t trust HR. That’s what he told me.
McGowan: I definitely‐
Patton: The history of HR.
McGowan: Oh, okay. The history, that’s different.
Patton: And I was like, well, I mean, I’m not Cheryl, I’m not Don.
McGowan: Yeah, I didn’t say that. Don, I didn’t‐he wasn’t even here enough for me to even‐
Patton: Yeah.
McGowan: ‐I saw him twice.
Patton: Yeah, yeah.
McGowan: Now Cheryl, I threw a question out there that she still hasn’t answered, so.
Patton: Then you had the one where no one knew her name.
McGowan: Yeah, I have no idea who she was.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
McGowan: But uh, no. You‐you and I, man we‐we hit it off from the damn jump. When I saw your sense of humor I was like “Oh god, this dude is me made over, he’s just in HR.” So, I’m not‐no. So, yeah I immediately like without‐
Patton: Okay, well that’s good. It’s reassuring. I can leave with like‐being like, okay. But‐
McGowan: Yeah, man. I’mPage
Patton: ‐I’m surprised that you didn’t know this is what we were talking about. That‐I‐that disconnect doesn’t make‐
McGowan: [inaudible]
Patton: Because when you got out and then you were like “Well here, I got this.” I was like, “I don’t even know what you’re talking about.”
McGowan: No, I‐we’ll go over it.
Patton: Okay, okay.
McGowan: Like I said, in the back of your head‐
Patton: Are you here all month or are you taking any time off?
McGowan: Uh…
Patton: Because I’m here all month. So, after the holiday party, after I’m done with this, I have an investigation to finish in Fire, and then I’m ready to go. Then I can‐we can sit down and talk about it.
McGowan: That’s further evidence that I don’t [inaudible] kick it. I don’t‐I don’t go to none [inaudible] I don’t go to employee functions. I just don’t want to be around because people are either [inaudible].
Patton: I noticed a lot of y’all aren’t coming but, okay.
McGowan: People wear their rank. I mean, now the second shift parties, that’s‐that’s kind of a clique thing. You know what I mean, if you’re not in the clique, you’re not invited. Which I’ve [inaudible] some grievances from other people, I just had a chat with somebody Sunday about a grievance with second shift. Which, it’s a problem shift, but until you change the leadership it’s not going to happen. But, you just promoted the guy over all, you just promoted a guy over all [inaudible] that started that shit. Wow, that blows my mind.
Patton: Hmm.
McGowan: It’s not a buddy buddy thing, many. It’s not‐it’s about hey, come to work, do your job and go home. Now whatever you do at home, that’s your fucking business. Just don’t bring it to work.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
McGowan: Isn’t that what supervisors are supposed to say?
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
McGowan: No, white picket fences on second shift. But, there’s only a certain few people allowed inside those white picket fences. If I didn’t work second shift, I wouldn’t be in that.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
McGowan: I’d be outside grazing in the brown grass.
Patton: Yeah. Well‐
McGowan: We’ll‐we’ll
Patton: If you change your mind and you’d like to come Thursday night, you’re more than welcome to.
McGowan: I can’t‐I‐I just can’t.
Patton: It’s okay, I understand.
McGowan: I don’t do it, like I said, I don’t do it at all. I just don’t do it at all, I can’t, I can’t do it, man.
Patton: It’s okay, you don’t have to. I’m just telling you from me to you.
McGowan: Yeah. Well you know, if you whatever, you want to go out and eat, we can go out‐me and you can go out and shoot pool, me and you are cool. There’s only a few people, me, you, Seneca‐
Patton: I’ll [inaudible] the river and teach you how to fish, because I heard you kind of suck at fishing.
McGowan: This right here, this is the spot.
Patton: That’s rolling pretty good today.
McGowan: [inaudible] Usually it’s rolling‐
Patton: It’s rolling all down this way, towards me.
McGowan: So, that means it’s going down to the main lake, out to the dam, out towards [inaudible]
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
McGowan: [inaudible] water.
Patton: Alright, listen. On this thing here.
McGowan: Yeah.
Patton: If you hear anything between now and Friday, or between now and a week from now, will you let me know?
McGowan: Yeah.
Patton: I’ve asked people to not discuss it, so, if it starts to get discussed, I’d like to know about it.
McGowan: Now that‐some people probably, most of those guys, whoever you’re talking to, I haven’t discussed it with them because of uh affiliation with uh CID.
Patton: Okay.
McGowan: You get what I’m saying? They look at me as Papa Bear whenever it’s something not official, but whenever it turns into this, these guys get scared.
Patton: [inaudible] these guys are scared?
McGowan: [inaudible] I mean, this is all I ever wanted to be and here I am twenty‐two years later and this kind of bullshit like this? Some pussy? Are you fucking kidding me? No. Not me, cuz. I’d rather be, shit I was there, I admitted to what I did, denied what I didn’t do, because I didn’t do that shit. Fuck you, but, I’m not going to.
Patton: Yeah, I read all that stuff today on the‐was it 08? 07‐08?
McGowan: 07. 2007 was the worst year of my‐my career.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
McGowan: Because where Konrad is right now, that’s where I’m supposed to be.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
McGowan: There’s no way [inaudible] spot. No way.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
McGowan: Even though he’s been here longer but I had [inaudible] There’s no way [inaudible] for something that I already admitted to the Chief, that I had done, he knew about it for months. Then all of a sudden he came [inaudible].
Patton: [inaudible] On the bottom, it’s hard to read some of the signatures but, is that like a D? Okay.
McGowan: Boyd and uh, evil mustache, what’s his name? He just died, what’s his name?
Patton: I don’t know.
McGowan: Fuck, I don’t know. Thompson, Stace Thompson.
Patton: Oh, I didn’t know the last name, I’ve heard Stace before.
McGowan: Yeah, Stace Thompson. Yeah, they‐boy, they did it, they got their boy, that was their boy. Konrad lives four houses down from [inaudible]. They’ve been boys since [inaudible] took care of them. [inaudible] they did it, but they let me keep my job, so. We’re good.
Patton: Well, you know how to reach me, you know where I work. I’m always willing to talk.
McGowan: Yeah.
Patton: This was a weird ass setup today.
McGowan: This blows my mind.
Patton: I told my wife today, I was like “I’m going to some place I’ve never been in Smyrna. Like, either I’m going to meet someone who doesn’t want to talk with me, or I’m going to get shot and end up in the river. One of the two, I have no idea.”
McGowan: Text her right now!
Patton: I have‐my phone‐I left my phone over there. I’ll be like “Uh, I don’t know what’s happening, I don’t know anything, although I have to show up at this pin.”
McGowan: Yeah.
Patton: Which I’m an old guy, I’m like, looks to MapQuest, I’m like “What the hell?” Alright.
McGowan: [inaudible] I respect you, bro.
Patton: Thank you for your honestly.
McGowan: Alright, no problem.
Patton: Just so you and I know, I don’t have you in this, okay.
McGowan: Okay.
Patton: When you showed up I was like “Well now, awesome. Because your name was thrown out there.” But I don’t have anything to support the throw out. I think it‐
McGowan: Whoever else was thrown out‐
Patton: ‐I think it’s just a‐I think it’s just a throw out and to throw us off the scent and I’m‐
McGowan: Got you.
Patton: ‐I’m not that dumb. I got nothing to support the two names I was given. Other than the other things I have that has already been substantiated, [inaudible] I don’t got anything. So, if you hear anything, please be cautious with continuing to text Hall on anything related to this stuff. Um‐
McGowan: Do you want me to go back to [inaudible]? Because that’s‐
Patton: As‐
McGowan: [inaudible] fragile about that. You know what I’m saying?
Patton: That’s up to you, it’s just very sensitive right now.
McGowan: That’s‐with the accusations and confirming that she was going to‐
Patton: You make the best decision, you make the best decision but I certainly would not recommend uh, any you know, action. Like face to face right now. Because then, then it’s her word against your word and if she sits with me on Friday and is like “here’s all the people I’m doing” now all of a sudden, I’m like “Well, crap. You’re the second person to say his name.”
McGowan: Yep, yep.
Patton: So, for right now I’m good.
McGowan: You’ve seen my receipts.
Patton: I did‐I saw it, I saw it all and more of her than I wanted to see. Thank you.
McGowan: You’re welcome.
Patton: And by the way, that thing has a GPS in it, so we’re rolling down these roads and I’m like “Bro, I cannot keep up with you. Bruce is going to get pinged every time I’m going 10 miles over.”
McGowan: Oh shit.
Patton: That’s why I was hanging back.
McGowan: Oh, okay.
Patton: Because I was like, I can’t do 41 in a 30.
McGowan: I‐I knew that was GPS but at the same time‐
Patton: Yeah, every time you do 10 over it pings him. Every City vehicle.
McGowan: Hard braking‐
Patton: All that. Yep, yep. Okay. Later. Yeah.
HR Interview of Juan Lugo‐Perez (334)
Davis: Juan, I don’t know if you are aware that we are conducting an investigation basically on the culture of second shift, okay. There’s been some things that’s been brought to the attention of the HR director through another source that uh he has been asked to uh investigation to find out if it’s legitimate or not and uh in the course of that investigation, which we have been almost two weeks now. Um, your name came up. Not so much as a target of the investigation but in the course of the investigation your name came up and we just want to ask you some questions based‐based upon your name. But before I do that, are you familiar with this document?
Lugo: Garrity? Yeah.
Davis: Yes. Uh, you understand everything that goes along with Garrity?
Lugo: Yeah.
Davis: Okay, if you would just sign for me please, saying that you understand. Yeah, you’re bottom line.
Lugo: Today’s the 20th, right?
Patton: Yeah.
Davis: It’s the 20th, yes.
Lugo: Alright.
Patton: And a couple of things that I’ll say at the start. First, um everything we talk about is confidential, it will remain confidential while the investigation is ongoing.
Lugo: Okay.
Patton: Um, when the investigation is concluded um any of my reports and notes are still subject to uh public record. So, just know that. Um, number two, is we have a no retaliation policy and that simply means that no one is allowed to retaliate against you for participating in this conversation, you’re also not allowed to retaliate against anybody else that participates in a similar conversation and if that’s ever happened or happens uh, you need to come talk to one of us so we can look into that concern. Okay?
Lugo: Okay.
Patton: Does that make sense to you?
Lugo: Yeah.
Patton: Okay.
Davis: So, just starting into this how‐just tell us about the culture of second shift.
Lugo: Um well, I was on third shift, the reason I came to second shift was because of the culture, it was more proactive, there’s a lot more senior guys that are more go‐getters, um so, that’s‐that’s why I went to second shift.
Patton: How long have you been on the shift?
Lugo: Maybe a little under two years. Uh, recently switched over to CSU.
Davis: When did you‐it was about a couple weeks ago, or two weeks ago?
Lugo: Yeah, yeah like two or three weeks.
Patton: And for a non‐cop, what does that mean? You switched over to CSU?
Lugo: So, it’s more of a self initiated type stuff uh our duties are to hit hot spots, we don’t really answer calls for service unless we have to. Um, if it’s something important or high priority and we’re available we’re going to go to it.
Patton: Okay.
Lugo: If the shift is swamped with calls or reports uh it’s our duty to step up and take some of their responsibilities.
Patton: Okay.
Lugo: Um, but mainly uh we do a lot of traffic enforcement, hit the hot spots, high crime areas and to my understanding every quarter we’re going to be doing a special event. So, tackling thefts uh that occur in specific areas and then tackling drugs in specific areas, stuff like that.
Patton: Are you in uniform?
Lugo: Yes.
Patton: And in a regular Police car?
Lugo: No, it’s unmarked.
Patton: You’re in an unmarked, okay. Thank you.
Davis: Yeah, it’s more of a directed Patrol. They kind of [inaudible] my pleasure, for the most part if there’s uh crime trends and you know, if I have, like I always report on car burglaries. You know, they’ll do something, try to be in those neighborhoods, things like that. So, he just, he just actually went to that a couple of weeks ago. He had gotten the position but of course our staffing didn’t allow us to push people off to other assignments, but they were able to do so. Um, is there one group or another that’s close on second shift? Kind of hang out outside of work?
Lugo: Yeah. Uh, I’ve hung out with Liedtke uh PMag and Gavin. Those are the only three I really hang out with outside of work. Um, typically they come to my house.
Davis: Okay. So, let me go ahead and preface this. What you do outside of work is your business. That’s not why we’re here, okay. Uh, we have no concerns about uh what you do outside of work. What we are concerned about is things that happened outside of work that may have gotten back to work or‐or situations that should have been reported to us that wasn’t because of something that happened outside of work. Not necessarily the‐the act of have‐or‐or what was happening outside of work, but the acts during that time period. So, saying that um what would you all do?
Lugo: Um so, here lately they’ve been helping me move but they come out to my house and we just drink, have a good time. Typically, my wife is present too and my daughter and my kid.
Davis: Okay. And who are they?
Lugo: Uh, Patrick, uh Liedtke and Gavin are the only ones I’ve hung out outside of work.
Davis: Would anybody drop in or anything like that ever so often?
Lugo: No.
Davis: Has Meagan?
Lugo: I haven’t hung out with her outside of work, no.
Davis: Okay. Um, are you aware of any of the other guys in that particular group hanging out with her?
Lugo: I know uh Patrick hangs out with her outside of work but um, they’ve invited me to a couple of their uh drinking nights but my wife don’t allow me to drink when there’s other females there. So, she’s not that type of‐
Davis: Yeah, I get it.
Lugo: ‐if there’s other females there my wife’s gotta be present.
Patton: Um, do you have any idea why you’re here today?
Lugo: I thought it was the one‐on‐one Chief’s meeting, I’m not sure.
Patton: Okay.
Davis: Yeah, that ain’t it.
Lugo: No.
Davis: No, sir. Um, that ain’t it.
Patton: Um, are you aware of any intimate sexual relationships between any Officers on second shift?
Lugo: Not that I’m aware of.
Patton: Okay. And I probably should have said it before but you know, your obligation is to tell the truth both because that’s what I need in the investigation and also as an Officer that’s your obligation but.
Lugo: None that I’m aware of like firsthand or anything. Obviously there’s rumors going around, but.
Patton: Okay. What have you heard?
Lugo: Um just not 100% sure who‐who’s messing around but there’s someone messing around. But like I said, I have no, no firsthand‐
Patton: So, what‐what have you heard, who’s in that mix?
Lugo: Nobody really wants to say, it’s kind of like somebody’s doing something but nobody really wants to come out front with it.
Davis: Who do you think?
Lugo: Uh, I’m not even 100% sure.
Davis: Alright.
Patton: Um, has anybody talked about people messing around while on duty, on shift?
Lugo: I haven’t heard that one, no.
Patton: Okay. Just off duty?
Lugo: Yeah.
Patton: Okay. And your answer to us is you don’t have any names?
Lugo: No, I haven’t had‐no one’s came to me and been like “I did this.”
Patton: Okay.
Lugo: It’s all just like rumor based and it’s second, third, fourth hand.
Patton: Okay. So, have you heard any names multiple times second, third or fourth hand?
Lugo: No, not really because everybody is very hush hush about it. Nobody wants to.
Patton: Okay.
Davis: Have you heard any names?
Lugo: No, so. Nobody wants to get like involved in it, so. And I don’t want to get involved with it too. So, when someone says rumors about stuff like that, I just turn the other way.
Patton: Okay. Have‐have you ever received nude images of any Officers?
Lugo: No, not‐not on my phone.
Patton: Um so, I need you to help me understand something. Like Chief said, we’ve been‐we’ve been investigating some concerns for the last week. I have multiple people that have told me that you have received nudes on your phone and I have one Officer who told me you went to them concerned about the fact that you received those nudes.
Lugo: Which one? Because the only one I’ve received, it was on Snapchat and it was one of those two or three second ones and I deleted it and I blocked it off.
Davis: From who?
Lugo: Hall.
Patton: It was on Snapchat?
Lugo: Yeah.
Patton: Okay. Which is on your phone.
Davis: Which is on your phone.
Lugo: Yeah.
Davis: Okay.
Lugo: I’ve already deleted her and blocked her too.
Patton: So, tell me about that experience, when did it happen, what was it, um why did you get it?
Lugo: I don’t know why that I get it uh, I just know it was late at night and she was drunk. I don’t know if she was supposed to send it to me or someone else. But I’ve received one and from there I blocked her because I don’t want to get hemmed up with my wife. My wife’s very jealous and she don’t want any of that. So, I’ve‐I’ve already blocked her. Uh‐
Patton: Who did you tell that you received that to?
Lugo: Uh, I want to say it was PMag, I think.
Patton: What did that‐what did that conversation sound like when you went to him?
Lugo: Like, dude, did you receive this because I‐I received this and I don’t know why.
Davis: Okay, and you didn’t ask for it?
Lugo: No, I didn’t ask for it.
Davis: Um, I’m about to be direct.
Lugo: Yeah.
Davis: Did you send her a dick pic?
Lugo: I did.
Davis: Huh?
Lugo: I did.
Davis: Okay.
Patton: On Snapchat?
Lugo: Yeah.
Patton: Alright, I’m going to go back and ask you another follow‐up question, okay. You just said you didn’t want to get hemmed up, caught up, talked about your wife. Um, when I asked you about nude images on your phone, you said no. Um, I don’t want you to get caught up in semantics, okay. A phone’s a phone. A phone has Snapchat, has text, has Facebook messenger, has Instagram chat, has all those things. Um, your dishonesty will cost you much more than you would probably imagine sitting in here. Chief can talk about that here in a second. Um, but we have information that we’re asking you about so, that you can confirm it and give yourself an opportunity to confirm what we already know. We’re probably not going to ask you anything that we don’t know the answer to, okay. So, did you ask Hall to Snapchat you?
Lugo: Um, not the first time, she just randomly sent like uh‐sent it to me and I texted her the next morning and I was like “Did you mean to send it to me?” and she was like “Oh, yes I did.”
Patton: Okay. And then what happened after that conversation?
Lugo: So, she asked if uh I’d be down to do a quickie with her and I told her I was not. Um, and uh‐
Davis: Let me go back. She sent the picture on Snapchat, you blocked and deleted her, but then yet there was a second situation. And how did you send the dick pic to her?
Lugo: It was on Snapchat too.
Davis: Okay. Follow me now. She sent the nudes, you deleted her and blocked her and yet there was a second encounter on Snapchat.
Lugo: I deleted it um, I didn’t block her just then um, she continued texting me and whenever I blocked her it was because uh she sent me a Snapchat and my wife saw a Snapchat notification of a female and she was like “who is that?” I was like, “Oh, that’s a coworker.” And she was like “You need to block it.” So, that’s when I blocked her.
Davis: After the nude, after the dick pic.
Lugo: Yeah.
Davis: Okay.
Patton: Did she ask you to send the dick pic or did you send it without her asking?
Lugo: No, she asked.
Patton: Do you ever text her or anything on your phone?
Lugo: No, it’s only been through uh Snapchat because they delete after you view them.
Patton: Who else are you aware of that has received and or sent any nude images?
Lugo: I know she sent the same picture she did to me to PMag but other than that, I really don’t know.
Davis: Did you show anybody the pictures?
Lugo: I showed PMag because I was like, I didn’t know what to do with it.
Davis: Nobody else?
Lugo: Yeah.
Davis: Schoeberl, Liedtke?
Lugo: No.
Davis: Okay.
Lugo: No, PMag is the only one I showed him and I was just trying to see what he think I should do and he was like “Oh, I received the same thing.” So.
Patton: Do you, and it’s okay if you don’t, but do you know that sending pornographic or um offensive content to a coworker is a form of sexual harassment?
Lugo: I did not know that.
Patton: Okay. Um, so, I’m going to go back to the very first question, okay. Because I feel like now we’re getting honest. Who on second shift is having intimate and sexual relationships with each other?
Lugo: The only person I know is Hall but I don’t know who she’s having sex with. Um.
Patton: Okay.
Lugo: No‐nobody’s really saying anything about it.
Patton: So, you hang out with Liedtke, Schoeberl and Magliocco and this topic has never ever come up at any of your hang outs? The fact that Meagan Hall is having sex with people.
Lugo: Uh, not really, um because when we hang out we’re just drinking.
Patton: Right.
Lugo: Um, I haven’t brought up any‐any topics about that. I only went to PMag one‐on‐one because I didn’t know what the hell to do.
Patton: Okay.
Lugo: Never actually had nobody send me something like that just out of the blue. I went up to him and I told him “Hey, this is what I got, what do you think I should do?” Uh, it’s the first time I’ve ever had anything like that happen.
Patton: What‐what made you feel like it would be okay to send a picture back to her?
Lugo: I‐I really don’t know um.
Patton: Momentary lapse of judgement?
Lugo: Yeah.
Davis: Uh, did‐did‐when she sent the pic to you did it have a message with it or was it just the picture?
Lugo: No, it was just the picture.
Patton: But then you guys communicated later and she asked if you would be down for a quickie.
Lugo: Yeah.
Patton: And that was over Snapchat.
Lugo: Yeah, Snapchat and then that was when I was like “No, we can’t do this.”
Patton: Okay. Do you have your City phone on you right now?
Lugo: Yeah.
Patton: Can I have it? Thank you.
Lugo: It doesn’t have a password on it.
Patton: Okay.
Davis: Um, I don’t think we’ve asked, have you been intimate with Meagan?
Lugo: No.
Davis: You wouldn’t lie to me?
Lugo: No, trust me.
Davis: And you’re saying you don’t know of any names. You know she is involved with somebody but don’t know who.
Lugo: That’s correct.
Davis: Okay. Remember when I told you in the beginning of this conversation that you’re not a target of this investigation, your name just came up and we just pretty much discussed how your name came up during the investigation. Um, this is a situation to where this is not an opportunity to try to help or save your buddy. This is an opportunity to save yourself. Um, so, if there’s information that you feel like you’re withholding to‐to‐to help a friend out we may already know. So, it ain’t going to help them but it will hurt you because you purposely withheld information from us. So, when we ask keep that in mind that this is about me. Meaning you. And not about them. Um, this is all the notes I have and he has probably double of that so, you’re probably not going to tell us something we don’t know, we’re just trying to get confirmation.
Lugo: I truthfully don’t know who she’s messing with. Um.
Davis: When’s the last time she’s reached out to you?
Lugo: Um‐
Patton: On your cell, on your personal or your City phone.
Davis: Right.
Lugo: The last time um was when, right before she left because she left like, she’s usually the type that stays and will get an arrest at like 11:45 just to get some overtime. Um so, she’s been leaving like an hour‐like an hour or two hours early. So, we sent her‐I sent her a message, I was like “Hey, are you‐are you alright?” And from there she never responded for like three days after that. Those three days she was like “Yeah, I’m doing a lot better now.” And‐
Davis: When was that? Oh, that’s, yeah.
Lugo: I’ve already deleted her from here, as you see I don’t have her on my contacts anymore, I blocked her. But that was probably, I was still moving into my house um so, about, I moved in on the 12th. So, it was probably around the 12th or 13th.
Davis: When you heard back from her.
Lugo: Yeah. I haven’t spoken to her since.
Davis: Did you talk to anybody prior to coming in here?
Lugo: No.
Davis: What made you think it was my one‐on‐one conversation?
Lugo: Um because Sergeant Staats sent out an email that Chief was having one‐on‐one meetings again and if you get like a meeting text or something to not worry because it’s just a one‐on‐one, because I thought it was going to be.
Patton: I’m assuming the sexual spelling of the word coming is something just between Officers?
Lugo: What is that?
Patton: A text message between you and PMag where he says “I’m coming.” But he spells it sexually.
Lugo: Uh, I guess, I don’t know.
Patton: Okay. What do you know about a hot tub party?
Lugo: Hot tub party?
Patton: Second shift hot tub party.
Lugo: I really don’t know. That’s the first time I’ve heard of it.
Patton: Okay. Never been invited to one?
Lugo: No.
Patton: Never attended one?
Lugo: Uh‐uh.
Davis: You ever been to Sergeant Staats’ house boat?
Lugo: No.
Davis: Did you know he had one?
Lugo: I know he’s got a bunch of stuff, yeah. Um, but I’ve never‐anytime we’ve hung out it’s always been at my house or we went to a concert uh the Five Finger Death Punch concert.
Davis: Okay.
Lugo: Yeah.
Davis: So, going back over the things that we’ve talked about today is there anything that you may have thought of or want to clarify?
Lugo: No, I’ve really been honest. Didn’t start off very honest at first, got a little nervous but um, you really have everything I know.
Patton: Um, I’m just I’m trying to wrap my head around you know, how this interview started, where we landed and if you’re being fully honest at this point. Um, because you know this is um this is a significant investigation, okay? Um, and my job in this whole thing is to have conversations, to make some judgement calls on honesty. You know, to collect these pieces of the puzzle that I get and see which ones fit together, you know. So, clearly is it correct in saying that you’ve made some judgements about Officer Hall given that you’ve blocked her, you don’t have her in your phone contacts anymore?
Lugo: Yeah. You’re more than welcome to check.
Patton: There’s something there that has pinged to you that’s like “I need to not do this.”
Lugo: Yep.
Patton: Okay, and again, your answer is that people have talked about Hall being uh sexually intimate with Officers but there’s no other names that have been mentioned?
Lugo: Not that I’m aware of.
Patton: Okay.
Lugo: And that’s truthful. Um, I know there’s been a bunch of rumors but I don’t know who she’s been with.
Patton: Okay, okay. Okay. I think I’m good. Let’s‐go ahead.
Davis: Um, no, I was just going to reiterate that you know, you’re not the target uh we kind of have to discuss things as far as you’re concerned. Yeah, this kind of‐kind of different from, I will say this, yeah, you were going down a bad road in the beginning. You were going down a bad road and‐and‐and that road would have led you to being decertified, okay. So, just keep that in mind that you have to sign that piece of paper in the future because it holds a lot of weight in the law enforcement world. Well, actually public service, period. Um, we would ask you for when you walk out of there, that you don’t discuss this with anybody. Um, even if somebody look at you like I know what you know and you know what I know. Don’t have the conversation. Um, from Chip to Lugo, keep her blocked.
Lugo: Yeah. I don’t plan on even talking to her when she comes back.
Davis: Do what you want, but I’m just saying you know, sounds like your wife don’t play that. So, don’t put yourself in a position where you lose what you got at the house. Remember what you were doing prior to working here. Do you remember what you had to do?
Lugo: Yeah.
Davis: Right before you came and did your interview. What did you have to do?
Lugo: You talking about the interview for‐
Davis: For the job here.
Lugo: For the job.
Davis: Mm‐hmm. What did you tell us?
Lugo: Uh
Davis: You told us that you was up under a house running pipes for plumbing, you had to go home, take a shower, and come here.
Lugo: Mm‐hmm, yep.
Davis: Much better life now, right?
Lugo: Mm‐hmm.
Davis: Don’t lost it.
Lugo: Yes, sir.
Davis: Don’t lose it. Because then you’ll be back up under a house again. I’m done.
Patton: Okay. Um, thank you for coming in uh again when that door opens uh do not talk about this investigation to anybody. If anybody talks to you about it you have an obligation to come talk to me and Chip about that and report that to us. Okay?
Davis: If you remember anything, come see one of us.
Patton: Yeah.
Lugo: Yes, sir.
Patton: Okay. Alright, thank you.
Share Ask A Cop
HR Interview of Gavin Schoeberl (369)
Patton: Um so, Gavin I am conducting um an investigation into some concerns from second shift.
Schoeberl: Okay.
Patton: Which is why I have asked for you to come in. Um, your name has been mentioned in the course of this investigation so, I wanted an opportunity just to ask you some questions, see what you may know. Um, before I dive into my questions, I know Chief has a document he wants you to look at.
Schoeberl: Okay.
Davis: Are you familiar with that document Gavin?
Schoeberl: Uh‐
Davis: Garrity warning?
Schoeberl: ‐nah.
Davis: You’re going to want to take an opportunity and read through that.
Schoeberl: Okay.
Davis: Okay.
Patton:
Schoeberl: Okay. Do I just sign it?
Davis: Do you understand?
Schoeberl: Yeah.
Davis: Yes, please sign down where it says‐
Schoeberl: The bottom?
Davis: Yes, the bottom.
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Davis: And today’s the 19th.
Patton: Um, a couple things before we start. Um, first um you know, questions that I ask you, I obviously need you to answer them honestly, you have an obligation to answer them honestly for‐for what you do for employment as well.
Schoeberl: Yeah.
Patton: Um, everything that we talk about um while the investigation is ongoing will remain completely confidential.
Schoeberl: Okay.
Patton: Okay. When the investigation is complete, because we are a public entity, they’re open for public records.
Schoeberl: Yeah, yeah.
Patton: So, you just need to be aware of that, right. I don’t‐it’s not necessarily common that investigative notes get requested, but if they ever do, they’re open.
Schoeberl: Okay.
Patton: Um, second, we have a no retaliation policy, right. And that simply means that no one is allowed to retaliate against you for participating in this conversation, you are also not allowed to retaliate against anybody else that participates in a similar conversation and if you ever feel like that’s happened I need you to come to tell me directly, so I can look into those concerns. Okay?
Schoeberl: Okay.
Patton: Um, so, I’m going to ask you a series of questions and I will be intentionally vague with you. Two points for that, number one is I don’t want to give you information that you don’t have, right, you don’t need to know stuff. Number two, I’m not going to use names necessarily but if you do know who I’m speaking about I do need you to use their names because that, I use that as confirmation of information that I already have. Okay?
Schoeberl: Yeah.
Patton: So, let’s start with this. Do you have any idea, has anybody spoken to you in the last week or so about why I might want to talk with you?
Schoeberl: No.
Patton: Okay, and you’re an Officer on second shift, correct?
Schoeberl: Yes.
Patton: Okay. How long have you been on that shift?
Schoeberl: About a year and half.
Patton: Okay. Um, what words would you use to describe the culture of second shift?
Schoeberl: Uh, close‐knit.
Patton: Okay. Are you aware of any beefs, any issues between Officers?
Schoeberl: Uh, no.
Patton: Okay. Are you aware of any intimate relationships between Officers?
Schoeberl: Um, not that I know of, no.
Patton: Okay. Have you heard anything?
Schoeberl: I’ve heard rumors.
Patton: Okay. What have you heard?
Schoeberl: Um, you said you want me to use names?
Patton: I do.
Schoeberl: Um‐
Patton: I think the‐I think the mechanics of the chair are gone, if it does it again we’ll‐we’ll set it out, okay.
Davis: Sorry about that.
Schoeberl: I’ve‐I’ve heard rumors that there’s I guess things, I don’t know what things, going on uh between Officer Saing and Officer Cummings.
Patton: Okay. Um, when‐when did you hear those things?
Schoeberl: A month ago, maybe.
Patton: Okay. And was it as generic as you just said it? Just things going on or were there more specifics?
Schoeberl: To be specific it was, I’ve‐I’ve heard that they were fucking.
Patton: Okay. Anybody else on shift besides those two?
Schoeberl: No, not that I’m aware of.
Patton: Okay. Um, I’m aware that second shift has some post shift, off duty hang outs, things like that.
Schoeberl: Yeah.
Patton: Um, which is not a problem um how often have you attended any of those?
Schoeberl: Like off duty, like just hanging out?
Patton: Yeah, just someone’s house, getting together.
Schoeberl: Uh, I mean, I would say fairly often.
Patton: Okay. Um, are‐are they typically at the same location?
Schoeberl: Uh, no they’re at different houses and we’ll go to one person’s house, we might go to somebody else’s house, or we’ll go to like see a movie or watch an event, something like that.
Patton: Okay, yeah. Who’s in that group of people that kind of generally hang out outside of work?
Schoeberl: I would say me, Lugo, Liedtke, uh Hall and PMag.
Patton: Okay, and of those people that you just mentioned um where‐do any of those people host parties at their house?
Schoeberl: Yeah.
Patton: All of them‐all of y’all?
Schoeberl: Uh, PMag does.
Patton: Okay. Are most kind of hang outs at his house?
Schoeberl: Yeah, most have been at his house.
Patton: Okay.
Schoeberl: We’ve had some at Lugo’s house before.
Patton: Okay. Um so, what happens between employees doesn’t matter at the Police Department or not, what happens between employees off site, not my concern.
Schoeberl: Yeah.
Patton: Um, and‐and nothing necessarily wrong about that. When, what happens off site becomes a concern for employment that’s when we get involved, okay?
Schoeberl: Yeah.
Patton: Um, you’ve got a copy of the handbook, right?
Schoeberl: Yeah, I‐I believe so.
Patton: Okay. Did you sit through a handbook meeting where you probably were asked to sign a document?
Schoeberl: Yeah.
Patton: Okay.
Schoeberl: I think I did that in here.
Patton: Okay, yep. Okay. So, page 13 of this handbook, um section 3.4 has a paragraph that I’m going to read, right. About personal relationships. Um, and it says this, “If a personal, romantic or intimate relationship is established between two or more employees post‐hire, it’s the responsibility and obligation of the employees involved to disclose the existence of that relationship to supervisors, managers, City Administrator or Human Resources.”
Schoeberl: Yeah.
Patton: “When a conflict, potential conflict arises due to the relationship affecting employment, the City deserves the right to make any and all employment decisions in the best interest of the City.” Right?
Schoeberl: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: So, what that’s saying is you know, when something is going on between two people or more um they have an obligation to come share that, right?
Schoeberl: Mm‐hmm.
Patton: So, that’s the paragraph where what happens off site that starts to affect what happens on site comes into play, okay?
Schoeberl: Yeah.
Patton: So, I say all that to say I have you know, some questions on the off site things. Um, when you guys are hanging out, how would‐what words would you describe to talk about kind of the level of drinking that takes place?
Schoeberl: The level of drinking?
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Schoeberl: Uh, I guess, I‐I don’t really know how to describe a level of drinking. I would‐I would say‐
Patton: Is it excessive, is it people getting overly intoxicated?
Schoeberl: I mean, we’ll get drunk and stuff but I mean, we never get like overly intoxicated where we can’t remember what’s going on or things like that.
Patton: Okay, okay. Um, are you‐do you have any information on what has been described to me as a girls gone wild hot tub party? No?
Schoeberl: No.
Patton: Okay. Never attended a party with a hot tub?
Schoeberl: No.
Davis: Have you heard of a party to where a hot tub was involved?
Schoeberl: I have not.
Patton: Um, so, Gavin, I have information that I’ve received in the course of the investigation that there is an Officer on your shift um, potentially more than one who are sending uh nudes, photos, videos, different things um back and forth with Officers.
Schoeberl: Okay.
Patton: Do you have any knowledge of that?
Schoeberl: No.
Patton: Okay. Can you help me understand why I was told you have received those pictures from an Officer?
Schoeberl: I have received one, yes.
Patton: Okay. So, let me go back to the first question, because I asked you if you were aware if that was taking place and you said no.
Schoeberl: Yeah.
Patton: But you have received one?
Schoeberl: I have, yes.
Davis: So, can I?
Patton: You may.
Davis: Let’s stop right here because we’re getting more specific in questions, just remember you just signed this Garrity form, okay?
Schoeberl: Yes, sir.
Davis: Do‐and you understand what Garrity is, right?
Schoeberl: Yes, sir.
Davis: Okay, alright.
Patton: So, tell‐tell me, that’s okay, tell me who you received nudes from.
Schoeberl: Uh I received one from Meagan Hall.
Patton: When did that happen?
Schoeberl: Maybe a month or two ago.
Patton: Okay. What was the context of it? Did you ask for it?
Schoeberl: Uh, no, she offered to send it to me.
Patton: Okay, from what you can remember, explain to me how that‐how we led up to that process.
Schoeberl: Uh, me and Lugo and Hall were sitting in a, I guess a circle or like just hanging out, out in the back of the PD. Uh, we were just talking and I guess somehow we got on that topic and I was texting Hall later and she offered to send it to me, and I said yes.
Patton: Okay. Um, again, help me understand how, so you’re all on shift‐
Schoeberl: Yeah.
Patton: You’re on duty, hanging out at back at PD, not abnormal, that happens.
Schoeberl: Yeah.
Patton: How do you get on the topic of sending nudes?
Schoeberl: Uh, Lugo had brought something up about you know, um, I’m trying to think of how it was done. Okay. So, we were sitting in a circle. Um, I guess, I’m trying to be as specific as I can, I’m sorry.
Patton: Thank you. No, you’re fine, take your time.
Schoeberl: Okay, so, alright, so this is how it happened, so we were sitting in a circle, we were just joking around and you know, some‐somehow we got on the topic of like sexual things, I guess what people have done and things like that and then like joking around like, I think we were talking about like penis sizes or something like that and then I don’t remember who it was it was either Lugo or Hall, they had asked to see a picture of me. So, I did‐I did show them a picture of myself, it was a nude photo. Um
Davis: To her?
Schoeberl: Uh, it was just in general. I just went like this‐
Davis: So, you showed everybody?
Schoeberl: Yeah.
Davis: Oh, it was [inaudible].
Schoeberl: Yeah, it was just‐
Davis: So, you didn’t‐
Schoeberl: I didn’t send the picture, I just showed‐
Davis: ‐send the picture, you just showed it. Okay.
Schoeberl: Yeah, I was just like that.
Patton: And it was you, Lugo and Hall?
Schoeberl: Yes.
Patton: Okay.
Schoeberl: And then I believe Lugo began, was like, “hey” like to Meagan, “will you show me a picture of you know” things like that you know. He was like, “if you’re okay with that.” And then she showed us a picture.
Davis: [inaudible]
Patton: Go ahead.
Davis: So, I’m going to take you back to the question that Andrew asked you in regards to if you knew of any internal relationships on second shift.
Schoeberl: Yes, sir.
Davis: Based upon the information you just told us‐
Schoeberl: Yes, sir.
Davis: Do you want to go back and revisit that answer then?
Schoeberl: Yes, sir.
Davis: Okay.
Schoeberl: What do you‐I guess, I’m confused, what do you mean like internal relationship?
Davis: Fucking.
Schoeberl: Okay.
Davis: Rumors, whatever it may be.
Schoeberl: Okay.
Davis: Do you want to go back and revisit that question now? Do‐do you remember anything‐
Schoeberl: Uh‐
Davis: ‐[inaudible] somebody, any more people around?
Schoeberl: ‐in regards to like?
Davis: The rumors about anybody, maybe on second shift or anything like that?
Schoeberl: I have no knowledge of anybody fucking on second shift at all.
Davis: So, based upon, now going back down here to the nude pics and things like that.
Schoeberl: Yes, sir.
Davis: So‐so, there’s nothing in you to believe that anything past these pics led to anything else?
Schoeberl: Not to my knowledge, I‐I haven’t done anything past that and I don’t know of anybody else doing anything past that. I haven’t heard anything about that.
Patton: Just for clarity too, this conversation took place when you guys were all 10‐8?
Schoeberl: Uh, I believe so. Yes, sir.
Patton: Okay.
Davis: Was it between your two hours when third shift was 10‐8, or when you all were still primary?
Schoeberl: Uh, I believe it was‐it was at 10 o’clock and then I think we got a call because third shift was busy on some other things and then we had to go to a call.
Patton: Um, so, you showed a picture of yourself to the group. Lugo asks Hall if she would be willing to show a picture, she shows a picture.
Schoeberl: Yeah.
Patton: Okay.
Schoeberl: And then I believe‐I believe, I can’t remember, I’m pretty sure Lugo showed a picture too.
Patton: Okay.
Schoeberl: Sorry, I wasn’t trying to leave that out, I just got off topic.
Davis: Mm‐hmm, that’s fine.
Patton: Okay, and then take us to how we got to the text.
Schoeberl: Uh, I was‐like between me and Meagan?
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Schoeberl: Uh, we were texting I said, well I‐I had asked Meagan for her Snapchat.
Patton: Okay.
Schoeberl: Um, and then she‐she said, “do you want the video?” and I said yes, and then she sent me the video. It wasn’t over Snapchat, it was over text message.
Davis: So at this point you have a video and a picture?
Schoeberl: Just‐just‐just a video, a picture was never sent.
Davis: Okay, she just showed?
Schoeberl: Yeah, she did it like I did.
Patton: Okay. Um, while you may not have thought about this in the moment, now that we’re talking about it, can you understand how this would be considered inappropriate for work?
Schoeberl: Yes, sir.
Patton: Okay. Is this the first time it’s ever happened with you?
Schoeberl: Like at work?
Patton: Mm‐hmm.
Schoeberl: Yes, sir.
Patton: Okay. Is this the only time it’s ever happened with you at work?
Schoeberl: Yes, sir.
Davis: Think about it for a second. Um, to your knowledge, um, other than Lugo and yourself, can you think of anyone else that [inaudible] she sent pictures to on shift?
Schoeberl: Can you repeat that?
Davis: Can you think of anybody else on your shift or in the department at all that‐that they may have mentioned to you that they got pictures from her too?
Schoeberl: That Meagan may have sent pictures to?
Davis: Has anybody else said “hey, she sent me some too?”
Schoeberl: I don’t believe so.
Davis: What about in your close group? What about Liedtke?
Schoeberl: I don’t believe so. No, sir.
Davis: Okay.
Schoeberl: As far as I’m concerned it was just, that day, it was me and Lugo.
Davis: Okay. Has‐has PMag mentioned anything about getting pictures from her?
Schoeberl: Not that I know of, sir.
Patton: Have you sent the video that you received to anybody else?
Schoeberl: I never sent it to anybody else. I got it and then I deleted it.
Davis: When did you delete it?
Schoeberl: You said what, sir?
Davis: When‐when did you delete it?
Schoeberl: Same time I got it, pretty much.
Davis: Are you 100% sure that it was Meagan on the video?
Schoeberl: I’m 100% positive.
Davis: It was sent from her?
Schoeberl: Yes, it was sent from her and it’s 100% her.
Davis: And no one else? You‐you don’t think it was sent from no one else?
Schoeberl: It was directly from Meagan Hall’s phone number.
Davis: Okay.
Patton: Did you‐did you and she have any conversation after she sent the video, about the video, or about anything else related to sexual comments or in nature?
Schoeberl: Uh, the only conversation we had about it is that I wasn’t going to tell anybody, obviously.
Patton: Did she ask you not to tell anybody?
Schoeberl: Yes, she did. And I didn’t tell anybody about it, it stayed between me and her.
Patton: Do you have your phones on you?
Schoeberl: Yes, I have, yes, I have my phones on me.
Patton: Okay. Can I have your City phone? And are you willing to let me see the texts between you and Meagan Hall on your personal phone?
Schoeberl: Like‐like I said, I deleted‐you can look through our text messages, but the message itself is deleted.
Patton: Okay.
Davis: So, those were sent on your personal phone or sent on your work phone?
Schoeberl: The pic‐the video was sent on my personal phone.
Davis: But you all will text through work phones?
Schoeberl: Yes, sir. I mean, not really directly.
Davis: Okay.
Schoeberl: But if y’all want to look through my personal phone, you can too.
Patton: Okay. I would be interested in looking at the text string between you and her if that would be acceptable.
Schoeberl: On my personal phone?
Patton: Uh‐huh. Um.
Schoeberl: It’s the very top. And since that night, I would say you know, we’ve, like the messages between me and her have been friendship not‐I’ve had no sexual relations with her at all. Um, you know, I haven’t‐I haven’t had sex with her or anything like that.
Patton: So, you and Eric Staats exchanged a message Saturday about our meeting this morning, did you guys talk on the phone as well?
Schoeberl: Uh, no. So, I didn’t have my personal phone uh when Chief’s assistant was trying to reach me uh so, Chief’s assistant called Staats and I‐I was talking with Staats and he was telling me that I had a meeting today.
Patton: Okay.
Schoeberl: So, we haven’t talked about it at all.
Patton: Okay. Do you have any information that you could share with me about Officers on second shift um, having sex or doing um sexual acts while on duty, at City property?
Schoeberl: I have no knowledge of anything like that.
Patton: No rumors?
Schoeberl: I haven’t heard no rumors.
Patton: Okay.
Schoeberl: I haven’t heard any at least.
Patton: Okay. When was the last time you talked to Meagan?
Schoeberl: Uh, it‐it would be on the text messages.
Patton: Would it be over the weekend, this last week?
Schoeberl: I haven’t event texted‐texted her in the past week, I don’t think.
Patton: Okay. Y’all haven’t had a phone conversation at all?
Schoeberl: Uh, no.
Patton: Outside of this um circle conversation in the back of PD, are you aware of any other Officers who were sending dick pics through texts to other Officers?
Schoeberl: Uh, no, I’m not.
Patton: Okay, okay.
Davis: You two talk a lot?
Schoeberl: You said what, sir?
Davis: You two talk a lot, right?
Schoeberl: I‐I would say, I mean a decent amount, not overly talk. I know I haven’t texted her, it’s been a minute since I’ve texted her last, I think.
Davis: So, the only thing [inaudible] that I see, you all talked about the car crash out here.
Schoeberl: Yeah.
Davis: You talked about the dog bite just a little bit.
Schoeberl: Yeah.
Davis: The only thing that I see and that I want to ask you about is‐
Schoeberl: Yes, sir.
Davis: Uh, “Jed is in the boro, getting a tattoo, but I still don’t have my [inaudible] back. I could really use a drink with a friend, could you pick me up from my house and grab a drink? [inaudible] is in town, they have good ones.”
Schoeberl: Mm‐hmm. Yes, sir.
Davis: Did that actually take place?
Schoeberl: Like did I go out to‐
Davis: Did you go pick her up from Manchester and go with her to [inaudible]?
Schoeberl: No, sir. No, sir.
Davis: Hm?
Schoeberl: No, sir.
Davis: What made you not do that, because it looked like you were game for that?
Schoeberl: I was with my girlfriend. I was talking to my girlfriend, I was seeing if she wanted to go out there and she said no, so.
Davis: So, you talked to her about the car crash because you was the second car. You was the second car.
Schoeberl: Yes, sir.
Davis: You’re not here because of that, I’m just trying to get some context on‐
Schoeberl: Yes, sir.
Davis: ‐she talked about if you felt that she did the right thing and all that.
Schoeberl: Yes‐yes, sir.
Davis: Um, and then I think she talked about the dog bite just a little bit. She got bit by a dog.
Schoeberl: Uh, I don’t think she got bit by the dog, I think that‐
Davis: She talked about that, okay.
Schoeberl: I‐I‐I don’t‐there was‐she’s been bit by, almost bit by two dogs, I think, so.
Davis: Yeah, yeah. So, y’all did not go to Logan’s that day?
Schoeberl: No, sir.
Davis: Was that the only time that she has asked to get with you? When I say get with you, hook up with you and maybe go out for drinks? I think y’all went to Mexichina one time, did y’all actually go there?
Schoeberl: Uh‐
Davis: She said, “Mexichina?” Just uh, question mark, but I don’t know, it could have been at lunch or anything like that.
Schoeberl: Yeah, I‐[inaudible] I don’t know.
Davis: That’s fine. Um, how many times have you all um, just you and her, if any, been physically together outside of work? Off duty, like‐
Schoeberl: Like by ourselves?
Davis: Just by yourselves, maybe going to grab a drink or anything.
Schoeberl: I’ve‐I’ve never been out by myself with her.
Davis: Okay.
Schoeberl: Like just use two, I’ve never been out with her.
Davis: But with the group you spoke of‐
Schoeberl: With‐with the group, where I’ve been with her, I’m‐I’m trying to think. I’ve never been out with the group with Meagan. Norm‐normally when I’m with the group it’s me, PMag, Lugo and Liedtke.
Davis: Okay.
Schoeberl: So, I’ve never‐I’ve never gone out with Meagan, Lugo, PMag, Liedtke‐
Davis: She’s never been with the group.
Schoeberl: Yeah, she’s never been with the group when I’m with her.
Davis: Have you heard about any of the gatherings outside of work where she’s been with them?
Schoeberl: No, sir.
Davis: Okay.
Patton: And Liedtke wasn’t in this little pow wow behind the PD?
Schoeberl: No, sir.
Patton: Okay.
Davis: Um‐
Schoeberl: He‐he was‐he was there for a brief moment, but he wasn’t involved with it at all like‐
Patton: Did he see any of the pictures?
Schoeberl: No, sir.
Patton: Okay.
Schoeberl: We‐literally as we were leaving he was coming over and he was like “what are y’all doing?” and then we were going to a‐a domestic.
Patton: Okay.
Davis: Um, kind of going back to the question, Andrew. Uh, have you ever been invited to any of the parties that Sergeant Staats has hosted?
Schoeberl: Uh, no, sir.
Davis: Have you known about parties that he’s hosted?
Schoeberl: I’ve‐I’ve known about parties, yes.
Davis: Okay. Uh, to your knowledge has he invited the entire shift or just certain people?
Schoeberl: I know I haven’t been invited.
Davis: Okay. So, you‐you haven’t known of “hey, I’m having a 4th of July party, y’all come on out” or anything like that? You said, you haven’t know of any?
Schoeberl: No, sir.
Davis: Okay.
Patton: Um, I think I’ve gotten the questions answered that I need um again, this investigation has been going on for a while, so.
Schoeberl: Yes, sir.
Patton: Um, you know, most of the information that you provided for me, we already had, so that was confirmation which is helpful.
Schoeberl: Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
Patton: Um‐
Schoeberl: I‐I apologize for the beginning part, I was nervous and
Davis: You’re good, that’s why we always give you an opportunity to go back.
Schoeberl: Yes, sir.
Patton: Um, so, when we open up that door, we need to talk about expectations, okay?
Schoeberl: Yes, sir.
Patton: And one of the expectations is, is while this investigation is ongoing that you would not speak about this investigation to anybody else within the LaVergne Police Department.
Schoeberl: Yes, sir.
Patton: Um, you know, I don’t know that you’ll get any kind of official notice that when it’s concluded. So, just a general rule of thumb, you probably should not talk about the investigation.
Schoeberl: Yes, sir.
Patton: Secondly though, if you, if anybody else talks to you about the investigation, you have an obligation to come to Chief or myself and tell me who, and what, and when, and where and what they said.
Schoeberl: Yes, sir.
Patton: Okay? Because we’ve been very clear about what‐how communication should‐should proceed. And then lastly, I would just say, this is problematic behavior.
Schoeberl: Yes, sir.
Patton: I would encourage you to not participate in that, in the future.
Schoeberl: Yes, sir.
Patton: Um, there’s‐there’s a lot of, that’s not how it went down, but that’s how it’s being explained that could be said.
Schoeberl: Yes, sir.
Patton: To find yourself in those situations. Anything you want to add?
Davis: Um, I think it goes without saying when you’re at work, you’re at work.
Schoeberl: Yes, sir.
Davis: Um, I’ve been around, I’ve been in law enforcement for 22 years. Cops talk. We have to have that moment to digress from things that happen. However, like Andrew said, this behavior it’s not what we do.
Schoeberl: Yes, sir.
Davis: That’s what brings problems within the Police Department.
Schoeberl: Yes, sir.
Davis: Um, that’s why this professional role has issues with female Officers because of situations like that. That’s why Officers in general have an issue with the public. Because while we’re supposed to be out there serving and protecting them, we’re engaging in stuff like this. So, that’s another [inaudible].
Schoeberl: Yes, sir.
Davis: Uh, I will say this, it is problematic. But if we thought it was problematic enough to where we needed to do something, we’d do it now. You wouldn’t get to walk out of here.
Schoeberl: Yes, sir.
Davis: With that stuff on.
Schoeberl: Yes, sir.
Davis: [inaudible] Um, just remember that, just remember that.
Schoeberl: Yes, sir.
Davis: Because there could have been‐this situation inspiring to where it could be very problematic for the Police Department.
Schoeberl: Yes, sir.
Davis: So, um, you’re young, I think you’re one of our up and comings. Keep it that way.
Schoeberl: Yes, sir.
Davis: Keep it that way. Alright. I know it’s easy to engage with it, it’s easy to engage with things like this but you have to have enough in you to disengage from it.
Schoeberl: Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
Davis: Even if you have to do it in a way that make it seem like you’re, I don’t know an outcast, or whatever it may be, “hey, I got to use the restroom.” That’s [inaudible] alright?
Schoeberl: Yes, sir. Um, I just‐can I‐am I allowed to ask questions about the investigation?
Davis: You can ask us.
Schoeberl: Okay. Um‐
Patton: We’ll be honest, if I can’t answer them, but you can ask me anything you’d like.
Schoeberl: Okay. Um, y’all had mentioned something about a hot tub, I guess‐I guess I was wondering if y’all could go in depth on the information about a hot tub, I guess? Not who provided it, but what happened with the hot tub? Because I‐I haven’t heard anything about a hot tub at all.
Davis: Let’s just keep it that way.
Patton: Yeah, yeah, if you don’t have any information on it‐
Schoeberl: Yes, sir.
Patton: ‐I go back to what I said at the start, I don’t want to give you information that you don’t have.
Schoeberl: Yeah, yeah. Obviously.
Patton: So, if you don’t have any information on it, then I won’t add any details.
Schoeberl: Yeah.
Davis: I wouldn’t worry about it.
Schoeberl: That makes sense, alright.
Davis: Yeah, don’t put yourself in a place that you don’t want to be right now, okay.
Schoeberl: Yeah, yes, sir.
Patton: Is there‐is there anything that you did not share that you want to have the opportunity to share while we’re sitting here about any of the questions we’ve asked?
Schoeberl: Uh, no, sir.
Davis: I do have one question.
Schoeberl: Yes, sir.
Davis: Have you seen any activity between Saing and Cummings on duty?
Schoeberl: Like‐like sexual?
Davis: No, just any kind of interaction with each other that seemed‐
Patton: Questionable.
Davis: Questionable, yeah, more than work related?
Schoeberl: I‐I haven’t seen anything. No, sir.
Davis: Okay, anything‐
Schoeberl: I’ve seen them talking and things like that but I haven’t seen anything questionable.
Davis: Okay, that’s fine.
Schoeberl: Um, I do have a question, it’s not investigation related, um, it‐and it’s super random and stupid, but I was‐I was just curious about it. Um, am I allowed to wear earrings to work? Okay.
Davis: No, not in uniform.
Schoeberl: Okay, I was just‐I was just wondering.
Davis: Not in uniform.
Schoeberl: Okay.
Davis: We only do that if you’re on a special assignment, narcotics, stuff like that.
Schoeberl: Yeah.
Davis: But not‐not in uniform.
Schoeberl: Okay, I just wanted to double check. I was‐I was told to ask you for that question, so. Okay.
Patton: Okay.
Schoeberl: Um, and then can you‐
Patton: Yeah.
Schoeberl: I read Garrity and I understand it but, can‐can you explain it to me?
Davis: So, Garrity in‐in a I guess you can say government situation, compels employees to cooperate with any kind of administrative investigation or criminal investigation, well no, it can’t be criminal because you can’t run the two together, uh, compel to cooperate and be honest in an administrative investigation and if you don’t, you can be terminated for not being truthful and then‐and now you know the‐turned into being a Brady Officer? Are you familiar with Brady?
Schoeberl: Uh‐
Davis: Brady Officer?
Schoeberl: I’m not, no.
Davis: Well that’s your homework. Google Brady Officer.
Schoeberl: Okay.
Davis: Uh, and that Brady basically in a nutshell is Officers who have been found for misconduct and truthfulness during an administrative investigation. So, basically they are not credible in court.
Schoeberl: Okay.
Davis: So, you can be deemed a Brady Officer. So, like you can still be a Police Officer but when you go to court there’s a hearing before the actual case that determines whether you can testify to it or not.
Schoeberl: Okay. So, a Brady Officer is basically an Officer who’s‐
Davis: Who’s been found for untruthful [inaudible].
Schoeberl: Yeah, not trusted.
Davis: Yeah, and I’ll tell you since I’ve been the Chief, um, I’ve had one, I’ve had one that uh was not truthful in an investigation and we have his decertification hearing next month. That’s not just
terminated, that means your law enforcement career is over if they take your certification. That’s the state, yeah. [inaudible]
Schoeberl: Okay.
Davis: So, Brady, so, Garrity goes all the way through all of that.
Schoeberl: Okay. Yeah, I’ve‐I’ve heard of Garrity before, I’ve never seen it. That was the first time I’ve read it and I just wanted to, I understood it, but I just wanted to hear it again, I guess just for future references.
Davis: Mm‐hmm, and we will give you the opportunity if you go down the road or something like that, while we are conducting this investigation if you come to one of us and say “hey, you know, I remember something.”
Schoeberl: Okay.
Davis: We won’t say that you were untruthful the first time while this investigation is still going on.
Schoeberl: Okay. So, while the investigation is still going on like, if I remember something or something comes up about it.
Davis: Come to one of us two, let us know, we’ll mark it down, that’s not saying that you was untruthful the first time or anything like that.
Schoeberl: Yes, sir.
Davis: But, I’ll‐I will say that if something comes out that you have more knowledge of and you confirm ahead of time, it still will be considered at that time.
Schoeberl: Okay.
Davis: Inadvertently admitting? No.
Schoeberl: Okay.
Davis: Okay.
Schoeberl: Yes, sir.
Patton: Any other questions?
Schoeberl: No, sir.
Patton: Okay. Thank you for coming in. You can‐you can head out.
Schoeberl: Yes, sir.
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